Re-reading the link for the forteen millionth time, would this mean according to hadd that most runners would be aroun 90-91% of MaxHR during the MTH as itis from the example he gave in the hadd info???
for truth wrote:
Here, read this. Lots of talk about HR training:
http://www.electricblues.com/Hadd.doc
I guess the first question that comes to mind is how did you come up with max heart rate. If you're using the formula I would say absolutely not use heart rate for pacing. Since nearly all the rest of means of determining MHR are based on your willingness to go all out, I'd be willing to get you don't know it.
Based on that my recommendation would be that if you've done several "test runs" to determine your ability, i.e. races longer than 5K disbursed through your training cycle then use a couple of the methods to estimate your marathon pace and bracket in. Do tempo runs at that pace and note your HR. One race day run your planned PACE but if conditions are outside your training (winds, heat, cold, more hills, etc) then use your HR to adjust your pace.
I've used a HR monitor for years. I'm a gadget guy. I learned it's a tool that provides information you can you use for guidance, not a guidance councilor. Don't think it's a hammer and everything's a nail.
F150 wrote:
Why would you ask RunningFart? Has he ever run a good marathon or coached anyone else to a good marathon?
OK, I'll take the bait. The two runners I have coached both ran PRs. I personally have a 2:32:50 PR.
So, what's your definition of "good"?
Don't bother with heart rate. Run by comfort level. Run a hard pace for 10 miles. If you feel uneasy then it's too fast. 10 miles at marathon pace you should feel like you are putting out a good effort but could easily change gears. As a test, go 10 miles at your "marathon pace" then try to drop 3 miles much much faster. If you can't then that "marathon pace" is too fast. Another test. During your long run go 5-10 miles easy, then 10 miles or more at "marathon pace". If you can do that without the pace getting away from you then you should be ok.
Alan
Keith Stone wrote:
I guess the first question that comes to mind is how did you come up with max heart rate. If you're using the formula I would say absolutely not use heart rate for pacing. Since nearly all the rest of means of determining MHR are based on your willingness to go all out, I'd be willing to get you don't know it.
Based on that my recommendation would be that if you've done several "test runs" to determine your ability, i.e. races longer than 5K disbursed through your training cycle then use a couple of the methods to estimate your marathon pace and bracket in. Do tempo runs at that pace and note your HR. One race day run your planned PACE but if conditions are outside your training (winds, heat, cold, more hills, etc) then use your HR to adjust your pace.
I've used a HR monitor for years. I'm a gadget guy. I learned it's a tool that provides information you can you use for guidance, not a guidance councilor. Don't think it's a hammer and everything's a nail.
Thanks for the input. I originally was using formulas until I was able to test or somewhat test my maximum heart rate. I have done several runs (tempos, intervals) and I think I have a pretty good idea of my maximum and it is right at the various formulas I have used. I will keep in mind that the heart rate monitor is a tool and not to be too dependent on it.
Thanks again.
OK, I'll take the bait. The two runners I have coached both ran PRs. I personally have a 2:32:50 PR.
So, what's your definition of "good"?
Don't bother with heart rate. Run by comfort level. Run a hard pace for 10 miles. If you feel uneasy then it's too fast. 10 miles at marathon pace you should feel like you are putting out a good effort but could easily change gears. As a test, go 10 miles at your "marathon pace" then try to drop 3 miles much much faster. If you can't then that "marathon pace" is too fast. Another test. During your long run go 5-10 miles easy, then 10 miles or more at "marathon pace". If you can do that without the pace getting away from you then you should be ok.
Alan[/quote]
There you are. I've been waiting for your perspective. This is the first time that I have trained with a heart rate monitor and I think I have been putting too much reliability on it. I have always run on feel and I guess based on my heart rate I am second guessing my pacing based on heart rate percentages. While I won't abandoned the heart rate, I will use it merely as a guide and will run based on feel.
Thanks Alan.
Heart Rate is just another measure to use, along with distance, speed, elevation change, etc.
Let's say on day 1 you run 10 miles in 70 minutes with an average heart rate of 150 then on day 30 you run 10 miles in 70 minutes with an average heart rate of 140. Well then that means you have improved. Now, if you notice your average heart rate going up then you know something is out of order be it your training or the weather (ie: when it's hot as hell).
Use the same ideas when evaluating a track workout. Let's say you are running 10x1k in 3:15 with 400m 3:00 recovery.. You notice your heart rate going up to 180 during the fast work and down to 130 during the recovery. A good progression would be that you drop to 3:00 during the 1ks with the same 180 heart rate and/or you recover faster now getting down to 120 during the 400m recovery. Now you make the stress harder by either increasing the 1ks to 1200s or cut the rest to a faster jog (2:30 instead of 3:00)
Stress, adapt, increase stress, adapt, etc.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote: Let's say on day 1 you run 10 miles in 70 minutes with an average heart rate of 150 then on day 30 you run 10 miles in 70 minutes with an average heart rate of 140.
------> Well then that means you have improved.
That's one possibility. Another is that you weren't adequately fueled for the day 30 session. You would likely have other clues to this however, like you wouldn't have "enjoyed" the second session as much, or found it to feel harder, paradoxically, in spite of lower pulse. With experience you can learn to read these signals very effectively.