Hall is running London

i guess glorifying god has to do more with $ than representing your god-given country 100% at the Olympics.

Im average wrote:

And as far as money goes, hell and all the others were going to have to skip a payday either in the fall or in the spring, so it more or less evens out doesnt it. Unless you are suggesting they eliminate the trials altogether.

It doesn't even out if you assume top notch marathons run 2 marathons a year and take the assumption that the US Olympic participants are supposed to skip a spring marathon with the fall Trials.

Spring Trials

2007 spring payday; fall payday

2008 Olympic Trials, Olympics

Fall Trials

2007 spring payday, olympic Trials

2008 nothing, Olympics

It's one less marathon they would be running and 1 less payday.

I see reasons to have a fall date, I just don't like it being presented that everyone is in agreement it is universally better. Obviously there is a lot of disagreement.

I think this is a great move. Gives Super Ry the chance to throw one down in London, a course he obviously took a liking to last April. He's so fit right now he'll recover with plenty of time to rebuild for the Olympics. I think the mental bonus he'll take from London if he runs well (2:07, maybe just under) helps him when he steps to the line in Beijing. He knows he can run with the Kenyans, he just wants to prove it now with a couple fantastic marathons under his belt.

wejo wrote:

A better comparison would be to go and look at the Olympic Marathon and World Champs champs and see how many of them did not run a spring marathon.

This is not doubling back. It is tripling back. You can't pretend that the Trials never existed. The Olympic Marathon will be Hall's THIRD in 9 and a half months.

Beijing is going to be BS as far as the marathon goes. I'm not going to get too cracked up over it. Sounds like Hall isn't either. Good for him.

I don't disagree with you. The goal of USATF is to put athletes on the starting line that are willing to do whatever it takes to "Earn a Medal". I believe that they have not done a good job of creating that. It sounds like you agree.

Glim Lestes wrote:

wejo wrote:

A better comparison would be to go and look at the Olympic Marathon and World Champs champs and see how many of them did not run a spring marathon.

This is not doubling back. It is tripling back. You can't pretend that the Trials never existed. The Olympic Marathon will be Hall's THIRD in 9 and a half months.

That is the key concept here. Hall will have run 3 marathons in less than a year. The Kenyans, Italians, etc, who run another marathon during the year do not have to run an "Olympic Trials", their federation either selects based on performance or says "here Boston is your trials" and so 100 Kenyans show up at Boston.

I don't see the problem with the USATF saying "here NYC is your trials, run 2:19 and we'll pay the bill". That way you do away with a seperate race yet still give the 2:20-30 guys "something to train for" as they are training for the same NYC race. So, you have 100 guys show up under 2:19 who USATF are footing the bill for, meanwhile your 2:20-30 guys are still training to suprise one of the "elite" in the actual race. That's a true national championship. You have the top tier invited in and paid for, meanwhile the "lesser" runners are in the race waiting to pounce. So, guys like Hall would have NYC money and USATF money to fight for and don't lose out on a payday. Right now guys like Hall are losing out on a significant payday by running the trials and waiting until the Olympics. By running the trials, a payday, and the Olympics they are hurting their chances in the Olympics with the 3 marathons.

Alan

I think Hall will pull a "meb" and drop out at 18mi with a blister..thus getting paid to get in a very high quality workout

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

It's impossible for you to know someone else's intentions....How do you know he will "focus" on London?

It's also impossible for you to know which is better for Ryan Hall -- getting one more race's worth of experience, or staying away from marathons to "save" himself.

But then again, on LetsRun.com, data never stand in the way of certainty.

Almost spewed coffee all over my keyboard, haha!

Brilliant.

So, the MAN REASON for a fall marathon is to allow athletes to come back on the track....A FALL MARATHON IS NOT DESIGNED FOR THE TOP 3 WHO MAKE THE TEAM....BUT FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT... this give athlete enough time to recover fully and start getting in track shape.... now the Abdi's, Torres, Browne's ets can try and fire up for a fast 10,000.... this will make the race in Eugene that much better and ensure the US sends atheltes in top shape in all the events... in the past, athletes had to choose.... marathon or 10,000... if it was a spring marathon Ritz may not have run, remember he still had his mind set on the 10,000 and now he may run the marathon... It was a great move for ALL THE ATHLETES... and made the trails so good becuase EVERYONE ran and was focusse on the race entirely... and not trying to bounce back for the track...thank you USATF...

Runningart2004 wrote:

guys show up under 2:19 who USATF are footing the bill for,

and USATF money to fight for

Alan

Alan,

1. USATF did not pay for any athletes to come to the Trials. This is always done by the LOC.

2. Take a look at the couple hundred dollars of USATF prize money. All of the money comes from the host.

goryan wrote:

So, the MAN REASON for a fall marathon is to allow athletes to come back on the track....A FALL MARATHON IS NOT DESIGNED FOR THE TOP 3 WHO MAKE THE TEAM....BUT FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT....

This is a classic POD. So the trials are not to find out who our best marathoners are. It is also not to put the best marathoners on the starting line. The Trials race is set up for those that don't qualify? I can't stop laughing at this one.

wejo wrote:

Im average wrote:

And as far as money goes, hell and all the others were going to have to skip a payday either in the fall or in the spring, so it more or less evens out doesnt it. Unless you are suggesting they eliminate the trials altogether.

It doesn't even out if you assume top notch marathons run 2 marathons a year and take the assumption that the US Olympic participants are supposed to skip a spring marathon with the fall Trials.

So the only thing we are disputing here is the BS reason USATF justified to have it in New York (essentially them assuming the three would not do a spring marathon) but that didnt happen so it worked out just as well (financially speaking) for hall as it would have if the trials were run in the spring.

Basically, USATF fell into the right decision for the wrong reason I think.

I love the idea of the fall trials because, as someone just said, it gets all of the runners focused on it without sacrificing or compromising any of their track season.

As a side note: RunningArt's idea to have it as part of the ING NYC marathon wouldnt solve any financial problems for the big pay day guys because there would be no reason for ING NYC marathon to pay hall, ritz, etc. to run when they know those guys will run already because it is the trials. Just thought Id add that.

Quote: \"As a side note: RunningArt\'s idea to have it as part of the ING NYC marathon wouldnt solve any financial problems for the big pay day guys because there would be no reason for ING NYC marathon to pay hall, ritz, etc. to run when they know those guys will run already because it is the trials. Just thought Id add that.\"

So then take that appearance money, and use it for prizes for the top 3 US runners that make the trials...

god-given wrote:

i guess glorifying god has to do more with $ than representing your god-given country 100% at the Olympics.

dildo....how did running London affect Hall this year in the fall?

Most top marathoners run 2 marathons every year. It seems to be the plan Ryan is sticking to.

Some do 5 every 2 years or even 6 and some do less. But 4 for an athlete who is healthy seems pretty standard.

I don't think the people at USATF should be shocked he's doing a spring marathon. Most people never believed that was a good reason to have the trails in the fall.

It does give the track guys more time to prepare which is good but with the Trails in say February I think they still have plenty of time to prepare for a track 10k.

The women's trials are in April and no one is saying that is unjust. The Trials in NY were about publicity. Forget about the other reasons.

what makes you think he will run worse at the Olympics? They're in the fall.

As to holding the OT with, say, the NYC Marathon, the issue was one of conflicting sponsorship.

Do people thing that Hall would run London if he thought it would hurt his chances in Beijing? Also, I'd think he'd alter his strategy from London 2007. Then he went out with the second pack, caught up, and moved to the front, gaining a good deal of confidence that he could run with the best in the world. So he may well go out with the leaders from the start to see how that works. Of course he did that at the OT, but London's field will be faster (and will have pacers).

I'd be interested to know whether he always planned to do a spring race (obviously London) after he won the OT.