Although Coe was my favorite runner from that era, I always thought that Cram was the biggest talent out of any of the guys from that time. It's too bad he had so many injury problems.
Although Coe was my favorite runner from that era, I always thought that Cram was the biggest talent out of any of the guys from that time. It's too bad he had so many injury problems.
Cram ran 3.47.7 at 16, not 3.42. He ran 3.42 first race next year at 17. Both were first race of the season and solo. The thing I remember about his 3.47 was it seemingly came out of nowhere. Not that he wasn't one of the moer talented runners, but a world best for a 16 year old, solo in his first race of the season was unexpected. (I beleive I beat him in his last race before his 3.47 at the English Schools Cross Country). Also, Waz, he was a little better and more of a 1500m runner than your Dad remembers at an early age. He was 3rd at age 13 in the English Schools 1500. Kevin was not that standard. Williamson had Crammy's number in those days. Hence Cram moved up to the 3000m for the European Juniors (there were no world's, Europeans were the event) so he could win the gold, while Williamson won the 1500. The start of Cram getting the breaks and not Williamson was in 1978. Williamson ran the mile in 3.56, Cram 3.57 in the same race. (Graham was 18, Steve 17)England took Cram to the Commonwealth Games while Scotland left Williamson out. (Incidentially Tim Hutchings ran sub 4.00 as a teenager in the same race)
waz wrote:
there was no epo then
epo has been around for hundreds of thousands of yrs....it is found naturally in the human body. the injected chemical form was around and used before the average track fan knew what was going on.... coe, ovet and crammy were dirty.
repoxygen is sapposedly the next super drug, due to hit in a couple of yrs...but of course some, paula, are using already.
waz wrote:
Interesting thing was his protege David Sharpe, World Cup winner, European silver medallsit and 1.43 guy used to be able to match him in sessions and would often run away on the last lap. Sharpey was world junior champion and had atendency to run like Borzokovsky, I honestly think he had more talent that Crammy but he was nuts. his training revolved around teh odd 4 mile spin about 7 minute mile pace with a park session and a track session per week. He drove fast cars, liked to party and was not particularly bright but he was a great runner. 1 hour before the European 800 final nobody could find hima nd teh team management were searching everywhere for him, he was found eating a roast dinner in the athletes canteen, 50 minutes later he was on the track and ran 1.45 for a silver medal to Tom McKean. he stopped racing around the time Crammy packed up and yet he was only about 26, a real waste of talent.
.
How did Sharpe get into Med School if he was such an idiot? Just curious. Did Cram really run 3:42 at 16? Everything I've read says he ran 3:47. Sharp came along a bit after Crammy's peak, so that might be why he was sticking to him in workouts.
Cram ran 3.47.7 at 16, check the u17 bests for 1500m:
The question is:
Who would have won the '88 Olympics if Cram, Aouita and Bile were all perfectly healthy?
As it was, all 3 medals went to guys named Peter with Steve's coming in 4th and 5th.
Thanks, Plato.
1. Cram. 2. Aouita. 3. Bile.
Cram and Aouita were too fast and too strong for Bile if all three were healthy. Cram was too fast for Aouita, barely.
Aouita should have run the 5k. He'd have loped behind Ngugi then blown him away over the last lap.
I agree. Auoita would have beaten John Ngugi in the 5k. His speed would have destroyed John. Cram, at his best, was the fastest of the three you mentioned.
The odds of those three being perfectly healthy at the same time were pretty slim. But I would have loved to see it.
Cram couldn't kick in 87 and had to push for home early at worlds which was the reason Abdi Bile ran 1:46.0 for his last 800. Where did Cram end up in that race?
Aouita would surely have to kick early than Cram and when Cram was on he liked to explode with 200-250 to go. I remember watching the Commonwealth 800 in late '80s where he stayed in dead last until the second backstretch and blew by the field (including Peter Elliot) like they were walking. He went around 1:43.0 and looked hardly winded.
I would expect Aouita lose patience and nerve and take over with 400 to go, but even if he waited for Cram to move, Cram would have still had to much strength in the final meters.
Bile wouldn't have had the confidence to challenge these two at the top of their game.
So I agree with the order of finish. But that's why they run the races.
I would favor Bile to win. He was #1 in the world in '87 and '89. And, as was mentioned, closed in 1:46 to win the Worlds in '87. He also hung around to finish 3rd in the '93 Worlds and 6th in the '96 Olympics but 1988 is when he was at his peak until he got hurt.
(Can you believe Peter Rono won? Going into that year the odds had to be at least a million to one)
In that hypothetical '88 situation, I might have favored Bile, too....but add Peter Elliott to your speculation. He was subpar in Seoul but managed a silver anyway. I wouldn't put him quite at the level of the immortal Brit trio of Coe/Ovett/Cram, but '88 was pretty close to his career peak.
Yeah, people forget how good Elliot was going into Seoul. Then he got hurt. He had much more speed than most of the other runners - he was a 1:42 800 man. He ran that 800 kicking down big mouth Johnny Gray.
Cram was too fast for Bile. Bile beat a way out of shape, hurt Cram in 87 at the World's. I believe Cram faded to 12th at the finish. But the next year, Cram was passed by Bile and the rest of the field on the backstretch of the Dream Mile, then he kicked by everyone in the stretch nab the win in 3:48+. Bile was a strong finisher, but didn't have the rocket acceleration, flying fast last 100 to 200 meters like Cram and Aouita. Would have been a great race. Such as it was, Rono beat a sub-par, injury riddled field, but he did run a gutsy race, and won the big one.
in 87 Bile was only the 3rd fastest in the world over 1500m. Yes he won the World Title but Cram and Aouita both ran quicker.
A fit Cram would have eaten a fit Bile for Breakfast. Cram was the dogs bollocks.
the reason he was injury prone is due to his poor foot plant.
the way his feet planted especially his left one, his feet planted turned our (everted) as well as his knees. an excessive amount of cram's propulsive energy is being absorbed by his knee and ankle joints in resisting the torsional stresse generated by his everted foot plant. this style of foot plant not only increases risk of lower-limb injuries, but also reduces his stride length by more than a centimeter.....it may have also be of interest that over several of his competitive years Steve Cram was bothered by lower-limb running injuries, particularly to his calf muscles.
from: Better Training for Distance Runners
by David E. Martin, PhD - Peter N. Coe
Human Kinetics 1997
Yes, you can see that duckfoot problem Cram had in many pictures. There probably wasn't much he could do, he was just put together that way. Wonder if he would have been significantly faster if he hadn't had the problem. I remember when he ran 1:42. He blasted by Cruz and Gray coming out of the final turn. Very underrated guy IMHO.
Yeah But wrote:
I remember watching the Commonwealth 800 in late '80s where he stayed in dead last until the second backstretch and blew by the field (including Peter Elliot) like they were walking. He went around 1:43.0 and looked hardly winded.
That was a freakish run at the CWG's. Track and Field News had it highly rated in their performance of the year voting. Cram looked to have a couple more seconds in him. When he was in peak form, he was awesome. Too many injuries. The way he cruised his 1:42 against Cruz, Cram looked like he was going to take down Coe's 800 record, but he never got in a race with a fast pace, and didn't run too many 800's anyway. Healthy, he probably would have won in 88, but he probably would have won in 84 if healthy. He would have taken off on the backstretch and made Coe go after him. Cram wasn't sharp in 84, trying to come back from injury, and when he tried to make a move, Coe started to really run. Back in the days before Westerners became completely intimidated by Africans. Or before EPO really hit the sport, according to dr. steve I believe.
One thing we know for sure about the 1500 (and running in general) is that is hard to stay healthy while trying to perform at the highest level. We've discussed health problems with Cram, Bile, Elliot and Aouita and Coe had his troubles as well. It is amazing how Morceli and El Guerrouj both stayed on top for 7 years straight each without suffering any major injuries.
A great read out there is "Steve Cram: The Making of
an Athlete". Covers alot. It also gets into some very
specific examples of his training. Cram discusses how
he did try 100 - 110 a week but encountered injuries
past 60-70 MPW.
Also mentions that much of his winter work was run
very simliar to Kenyan Sub AT running ( start slow
finish fast). Not much track work either - all very
high quality.
The greatest was when he would take spring training
stints in Boulder.
Sharpie never went to med school, he was pretty thick, I think he works as a groundsman now.