The OFFICIAL Webb Tactics Critique Thread

Webb and his coach have to realize that you can't race AND train hard for 2-3 months and not be exhausted unless you are on drugs. That's why Webb had a cold. He was tired and thus immunosuppressed. It's like last year with the 10k. Running the 10k is fine if you recover from it, but I kept reading about how he ran the 10k and did all these ridiculous workouts right after. Not very smart. When you run a PR or a great race, you have to respect your effort and you need to rest afterwards.

Who is voting for "race tactics"?

What should Webb have done better? He was in position to win coming off the last turn, and the pace (while not blazing) was at least somewhat hard. He stayed out of trouble and in contact of the lead the entire way.

Great tactics, only problem was the hair piece slipped going around the final curve. He subsequently lost concentration, which I can understand completely. He lost it due to a hair piece malfunction and it's not his fault.

I think the peaking too soon thing is an overused cliche on Letsrun. Look at how Bekele set the 5000 WR in May 2004, the same year as his Olympic gold and silver. Bekele is in incredible shape all summer long.

Webb ran a great time trial not too long ago and I would not be surprised if he could still run close to 3:46 in a week or two. The bottom line is that he just didn't have it for the semi and the final. Who knows why...maybe it was nervousness, jet lag, previous injury, illness, etc. I just think "peaking too soon" is not the case.

wejo wrote:

I wouldn't say his problem was tactics.

I would go with mistiming his peak.

Actually I'll put a poll on the front page

What was Alan Webb's biggest problem?

1 Peaking Too Soon

2 Race Tactics

3 His Head (Confidence, Nervousness)

4 Injury/Illness

Should these be the 4 categories? Feel free to add more.

I would go with 1 then 3.

He looked ok in heat 1. But in the semi and final he didn't look good. Thus it can't help his confidence which is #3.

So say he choked or whatever you want but I don't think tactics were his problem. Lagat was right with him most of the way and he now has a gold medal.

wejo, how do we know Webb peaked too early?

Nothing from the Finals indicated that. Times were slower--Championship running is a sick & kick game. Just because he has the fastest time coming in doesn't guarantee anything.

Again, how do we knew he mis-timed his peak?

dfgdfgdfg wrote:

you have to ask the question, with a different coach, would he have been more successful when it really counted?

sure, he could've stayed with Warhurst. he'd be about a 3:36 guy right now, often injured, and "when it really counted" for him would be the US championships, because that's as far as he would go.

Raczko is the right coach for Alan Webb.

Webb took it out and ran a good race.

http://trackandfieldphoto.com/DisplayJpg.php?070829_1305_4140_RLM&next=1

agreed. his 2:15 1000m time trial a week ago shows he didn't peak too soon. of course people already forgot about that.

Or Maybe wrote:Perhaps he had over-exerted himself in the semis.He definately had a solid finishing drive there.That over-exertion on the last lap of his semi combined with general fatigue from the rounds, a big season, and mental stress from all of the above, I think, is the culprit in his lack of finish over the homestretch today.

Webber Grill wrote:

I think the peaking too soon thing is an overused cliche on Letsrun. Look at how Bekele set the 5000 WR in May 2004, the same year as his Olympic gold and silver. Bekele is in incredible shape all summer long.

Webb ran a great time trial not too long ago and I would not be surprised if he could still run close to 3:46 in a week or two. The bottom line is that he just didn't have it for the semi and the final. Who knows why...maybe it was nervousness, jet lag, previous injury, illness, etc. I just think "peaking too soon" is not the case.

AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU. Webb made some scary moves in that semi, running dead last the whole time and sprinting like the world is gonna end the last 200, maybe it cost him his kick in the final, because I could have easily seen him win that with the kick he has had all season, no one could touch him! He just seemed to have that incredible ability to outkick anyone who challenged him. I don't think he peaked too soon, I can see why some think so, but it seems to me that Webb cost himself from the semifinal run. I imagine it is difficult running 3 races over the course of 5 days that really matter. The likelihood of screwing yourself over in one of the races is a very good chance. That is a big difference from running and preparing for just one race. I weigh that over peaking too early.

Everyone talks about what a great kick he had all year, but I've seen no hard evidence of it. I'm not saying he did or did not, but it would be interesting to look at numbers. How fast did he run the last 100m in each of his 1500 / mile races? And then how fast did Lagat run the last 100m today?

I have a sneaking suspicion that this season Webb has either: a) outkicked a field he easily outclassed; b) accelerated strong off a blistering pace (Paris), or c) outkicked athletes who were not in peak form (USATF). Either way, I'm not sure if he's ever shown the ability to kick as well as he would have needed to win today.

wejo wrote:

I wouldn't say his problem was tactics.

I would go with mistiming his peak.

Actually I'll put a poll on the front page

What was Alan Webb's biggest problem?

1 Peaking Too Soon

2 Race Tactics

3 His Head (Confidence, Nervousness)

4 Injury/Illness

Should these be the 4 categories? Feel free to add more.

I would go with 1 then 3.

He looked ok in heat 1. But in the semi and final he didn't look good. Thus it can't help his confidence which is #3.

So say he choked or whatever you want but I don't think tactics were his problem. Lagat was right with him most of the way and he now has a gold medal.

I don't know how you can suggest that the problem is "his head", when he had every opportunity to win with 100m to go. It would have to be a pretty massive psychological block to not be able to give 100% effort on the home stretch. And I don't think he's that big of a head case. He just didn't have the speed.

Comparing to Lagat makes no sense because they are two different runners. What is best for Lagat is not necessarly best for Webb. If he doesn't have the finishing speed he needs to win, he should have made a move earlier to string things out and give himself a better chance. The biggest issues is definately tactics, yet having said that, I'm not sure he has the ability to win at this point.

The biggest issues is definately tactics, yet having said that, I'm not sure he has the ability to win at this point.

So are you saying Webb should have gone to the front and pushed an even harder pace the entire way? There is no reason to believe that this would have allowed him to win today. And if he had done that, and he had fallen apart on the last curve and finished out of the medals, everyone on here would be bashing his tactics.

He put himself in the position where he had a fair chance to win, his body just didn't hold up its end of the deal. What tactics would be better?

Results do not necessarily justify or condemn the tactics that helped bring about those results.

Yes he was in position on the last turn and that is the most important thing but not the only important thing. He paved the way for the first lap using up more energy than anyone else. he was in 2nd the rest of the race using up the 2nd most energy. everyone else behind was conserving. It was a kickers race and he ran up front the whole time. When was the last time someone won an Olympic of World gold at at anything from the 1500m and was leading the first 600? It just does not happen that often. When you are the best in the world you sit back (not too far) and let others do the hardest work. Lagat did that Webb didn't

Maybe the real excuse is that he did not have it today. Maybe he is sick or peaked too early. Maybe he just is not trained to run 3 races and have a strong kick. Whatever it is he said that he learned nothing. If that is true we won't be seeing him with a medal next year either.

now now wrote:

So are you saying Webb should have gone to the front and pushed an even harder pace the entire way? There is no reason to believe that this would have allowed him to win today. And if he had done that, and he had fallen apart on the last curve and finished out of the medals, everyone on here would be bashing his tactics.

He put himself in the position where he had a fair chance to win, his body just didn't hold up its end of the deal. What tactics would be better?

Results do not necessarily justify or condemn the tactics that helped bring about those results.

I'm saying that he left it to a kick and he got worked over pretty good. And I'm not sure his body was to blame, in the sense that on any other day he could have been able to win in the same situation.

There are alternatives to either leaving it to the last 100m or "pushing an even harder pace the entire way." Like making a big move from 400 or 600m out, for example.

rewatching the race, webb should have won... he is in better fitness than all those guys.

his head got in the way.

webb, now that you've got the american record, focus on gold... that is really all that matters in your sport. wr will come later.

kohlberg wrote:

I'm saying that he left it to a kick and he got worked over pretty good. And I'm not sure his body was to blame, in the sense that on any other day he could have been able to win in the same situation.

There are alternatives to either leaving it to the last 100m or "pushing an even harder pace the entire way." Like making a big move from 400 or 600m out, for example.

True, but nothing indicates he had the kind of energy in him to make a long sustained move today. I honestly think that no matter what tactics he used, people on here (not necessarily you) would be bashing his tactics unless he won.

now now wrote:

people on here (not necessarily you) would be bashing his tactics unless he won.

Actually he could win and he would still be bashed.

now now wrote:

True, but nothing indicates he had the kind of energy in him to make a long sustained move today. I honestly think that no matter what tactics he used, people on here (not necessarily you) would be bashing his tactics unless he won.

Well, he's the fastest in the world this year, so theoretically in a time trial situation, he can win. So, I'd think he'd want to recreate that as best he can without being a sacrificial lamb. He's not a kicker, but ran today as if he was. A move from farther out would have played to his strengths more.

run-bike-run wrote:

dfgdfgdfg wrote:

you have to ask the question, with a different coach, would he have been more successful when it really counted?

sure, he could've stayed with Warhurst. he'd be about a 3:36 guy right now, often injured, and "when it really counted" for him would be the US championships, because that's as far as he would go.

Raczko is the right coach for Alan Webb.

Warhurst is not the only other coach out there. And I seriously doubt that he'd be a 3:36 guy even if he had stayed with Warhurst. With Webb's talent, Joe off the street could get him to run 3:36.