Khalid Skah - Probably not great news

Maybe it's just that many of the best (and more likely to cheat or already have cheated) runners chose to train in AlbQ.

deltacross wrote:

Taints your memory? My memory of Skah is that he seemed pretty greasy. I'm not surprised at all.

Skah looks a lot like the scumbag who led the ring of 9/11 perpetrators. They have a certain "evil" about their appearance.

My memory was of being in the stadium and him winning a great final burn with the late Chelimo. In the grand scheme of world class endurance at the time, there was nothing otherworldly about his times or his achievements and at the time of course there were no EPO tests.

We don't all assume that everyone who runs very fast and comes from a particular nation must be cheating, do we? I'm naive/optimistic enough to hope that athletes that can get by in 5 languages, as he apparently can, have enough about them to play by the rules.

My reference really didn't have anything to do with race or ethnicity. Although you are correct in saying he didn't drop any extraordinary times on anyone, I was referring to some of the tactics he used in races, blocking etc.. Some may say that's just racing. Well, although the Kenyans are known to use team tactics in races that aren't scored as team events I personally don't agree with that. Obviously, it's a stretch (to put it mildly) to use that as a bridge for doping. There was something there that didn't click for me with that guy. Not in a racial profiling manner either.

When honest messages are removed, beware the official story.

i would guess that the list is much longer for boulder. especially when you add in all the cyclists there.

abq always was second city to boulder for distance runners.

janet trujillo went to hs in albuquerque. bob kennedy altitude time was mostly spent in boulder with uta pipig and deter hogan(funny how wejo calls just abouut everyone a drug cheat but will go to the ends of the earth to depend uta).

if elva is dirty its not her time in abq, but its her former agent kim mcdonald who you should be looking at. she also had lived full time in abq for at least 5+ years.

david morris a good ol boy from alaska and montana spend a hell of lot more time in japan than abq.

who the hell are brantly lutz and andrew begley?

i assume andrew is amy yoder's husband, and i barely recognize her name.

alan webbs drug links are either the george mason coach, or his agent.

josiah thugwane sucked after abq.

you honestly think that morrocans and algerians come to abq to find drugs?

thats like a stripper leaving vegas to go to provo utah to be a hooker.

eddie, teddie, and deeja are the only ones that have any common drug connection.

people train in abq because elevation goes from 4,000 to 11,000 within the city limits, the weather is mild year round, the terrain is hilly and lots of dirt trails, there is an international airport, its cheap, lots of golf courses, and there are quite a few tracks in good condition that are open to the public.

No doubt that in general the Moroccans are more suspicious then their east african counterparts. But I wouldn't label Hissou in the same category as Lahlafi.

Lahlafi made big improvements at the age of 31-32 (in 1999-2000) whereas Hissou's significant improvements came in 1994 when he was 22 (he ran his personal records in 1996 at 24). At the age of 28 Salah missed the Sydney Olympics because of an ankle injury. He wasn't avoiding the new EPO test because he also missed all of the 2001 season, including the World Championships which had arguably the weakest 10,000m field of all time. He would have stood a good chance to win if he was fit. You are thinking that I am helping your argument. That he hid away once the test came out. Not true. After all his injuries and turning 30 he was virtually washed up. If he was on EPO then he would have retired and kept his 'clean' record. But he came back in '02 (despite there being no major championship that year) and continued competing, even after the positive tests of Mourhit and Boulami. He still raced in europe in '03, failing to make the 5,000m final in Paris. He was finished as a top class track distance runner, not because he had stopped taking EPO. It was because he was 31 (how many Kenyans last past 27?) and had endured numerous injuries throughout '98-01'. That is a common sense view. It is possible that he could have been on EPO. But far less likely then many other tarnished runners.

Another point. He was coached by Abdelkader Kada who also coached El Guerrouj, who also never tested positive. Hicham never had any suspicious improvements in times and competed in all the big races from 2000-2004 (after the EPO test came out). Do you believe that he was definitely on EPO, blood doping, etc too?

There is no reason to be suspicious, just look at their normal progression from year to year.

Rachid Ramzi

1500m

2002 3:44.85 Stockholm

2003 3:39.30 Rabat

2004 3:30.25 Rome (9 sec drop)

2005 3:30.00 Rome

2006 3:29.14 Rome

Abderrahim Goumri

5000m

2001 13:03.60 Paris

2002 13:00.76 Stockholm

2003 13:05.81 Stockholm

2004 12:59.04 London

2005 12:50.25 Bruxelles (9 sec drop)

Mariem Alaoui Selsouli

5000m

2003 16:31.87 Casablanca

2005 16:07.99 Izmir

2006 15:04.46 Liege

2007 14:36.52 Rome

3000m

2001 9:26.27 Debrecen

2002 9:16.28 Kingston

2003 9:08.53 Garoau

2004 9:14.66 Doha

2006 8:45.96 Alger

2007 8:29.52 Monaco

Don't know why you put the 9 second 5k drop in, many athletes have made this sort of improvement. Do you suspect Dave Moorcroft?Big jumps on their own don't mean much. I improved my 5k time by around 20 seconds two seasons running, in my early 30s, roughly 14:55 -> 14:32 -> 14:10.I'm not saying these guys aren't doped, I've no idea.

indurain wrote:

There is no reason to be suspicious, just look at their normal progression from year to year.

Abderrahim Goumri

5000m

2001 13:03.60 Paris

2002 13:00.76 Stockholm

2003 13:05.81 Stockholm

2004 12:59.04 London

2005 12:50.25 Bruxelles (9 sec drop)

Goumri's progression doesn't look ridiculous but Ramzi and the female - no question. Even more obvious then the greek hurdler bird in Athens.

mediocre runner wrote:

Don't know why you put the 9 second 5k drop in, many athletes have made this sort of improvement. Do you suspect Dave Moorcroft?

Big jumps on their own don't mean much. I improved my 5k time by around 20 seconds two seasons running, in my early 30s, roughly 14:55 -> 14:32 -> 14:10.

I'm not saying these guys aren't doped, I've no idea.

indurain wrote:

There is no reason to be suspicious, just look at their normal progression from year to year.

Abderrahim Goumri

5000m

2001 13:03.60 Paris

2002 13:00.76 Stockholm

2003 13:05.81 Stockholm

2004 12:59.04 London

2005 12:50.25 Bruxelles (9 sec drop)

Improving from 13.00 > 12.50 is like having running 15 min 5ks for 4 years then suddenly run 14.00 the 5th year.

You must understand that he trained extremely hard to acheive 13.00 (twice a day being a full-time athlete). As you reach that kind of level of training it gives you dimishing returns. And a 10 second drop is a return that can't be explained only with training. Also the race conditions are perfect in those GP races having pacemakers and all.

Im sure you didn't train as much or hard as an elite athlete when you ran 15.00 as you did when you ran 14.10. So training probably gave you bigger returns.

apparently you missed the ? placed beside the names - with the exception of teddy - it looked as if they were nailed for drugs. in teddy's case - he is guilty by association and by his coincidental drop in performance at the same time as eddie.

facticity wrote:

apparently you missed the ? placed beside the names - with the exception of teddy - it looked as if they were nailed for drugs. in teddy's case - he is guilty by association and by his coincidental drop in performance at the same time as eddie.

i did miss the question marks, which actually makes the post even more ridiculous. Why would you list a bunch of people who most people wouldn't even consider as drug cheats with a very short list of those who are? what is the point? is the poster saying that everyone on the list is dirty? that anyone in abq is dirty?

Yes, quite amazing that wejo has a link to this thread on his front page. And in all this not one shred of evidence about Skah doing any drugs.

Yet show me one time hes placed any suspicion on Lance Armstrong for doping?

Very biased against some suspects and yet refuses to consider others. And we can all see the pattern here too. We're not stupid.

Funny how 5 years later, all three of these athletes tested positive for performance enhancing drugs..

So you can't go to Albuquerque and train and not do drugs? Is that it?

Wow Unbelievable wrote:

So you can't go to Albuquerque and train and not do drugs? Is that it?

Albuquerque still is behind Ifrane and Iten in the black list. And another small towns in East Africa.

NOBODY, NOBODY knows where's Makhloufi.

Yes, he is in Ethiopia...but where? Addis Abebba? another lost village in the middle of the mountains?

Shouldn't we add another name to that list? Shorter trained in Taos NM...must have been drugs. He showed great improvement from college to pros. Silly.

There are drug cheats out there, but there are a lot of clean athletes as well...and many make HUGE improvements. Look at Mr. Cam Levins recently. I don't doubt he will get to sub 13....this is from roughly a 13:20 mark right now. But must be drugs...right? What about Ben True? His recent performance must be drug related...not his greater focus on volume/intensity that he can now handle (which most mature athletes can as they accrue more training years).

Interesting that Paulmann, Masai's manager, reported that she provided PEDs to Tahri, but no comment about providing anything to Masai.

2 possibilities.

1 - This article/ investigation is about French athletes only, which is why Masai wasn't mentioned by Paulmann.

2 - someone else(or nobody) furnishes Masai

Your vote?