what is the minimum 400m speed needed to run 1:45???

douglas burke wrote:

horwill went on to say if you have a 800 runner with quantorena's speed and wohlhuter's or coe's endurance the record for the 800 would be 136 -138

Wariner could be that the first runner in a sub 1:40 due to his body build. But he lacks the interest or the motivation do run 800m.

it at least shows with wohlhuter only being able to run 48.2 for the quarter, but 143.5 for the 800. so the mininimum speed to run a 145 half has to be slower than 48.2, lets see 49 x 2 equal 138 plus 3.5 per lap equals 145. so if someone had wohlhuters 800 meter endurance, but was about 1 second slower than wohlhuter in the 400 that person could run 145 for the 800.

douglas burke wrote:

horwill went on to say if you have a 800 runner with quantorena's speed and wohlhuter's or coe's endurance the record for the 800 would be 136 -138

OMG!!!! A runner with Tyson Gay's speed and Bekele's endurance would run..holy shit HOLY SHIT a 1:24!!!!!!!

I believe it will require someone to run a 45 mid and have sub 3:50 endurance to break 1:40. Either 44 speed and sub 4 endurance or 46 speed and 3:45 endurance. Its going to take that to break 1:40.

The fastest I have ever run a quarter is 49 point in a relay. If I worked at it, I might get to 48 mid maybe 48 low. However, I seriously doubt I'll ever run a 1:44 with equivalent endurance. I could probably run 1:47 high with that speed or about 6 seconds slower per 400. That would be quite an accomplishment.

If you can get within 6 seconds slower 400 pace for 800 from your 400 PR, you're near your 800m best. Most can't do that. Just because you run a 4 in 46, and run 100 miles a week along with a 3:58 mile does not mean you can go run a 1:45.

400m speed means next to nothing when you're running over 500m. For most distance runners, likewise, a 49 point, 1:49 point is the very best they'd ever be.

Wariner would be hard pressed to run 1:15 for 600. He would never run 1:43 or faster, his chest is too small. Could he be good at 800? sure.

Most of you will suck no matter how hard you train at 400/800/1500m. Those events require both extreme speed and endurance and sometimes even those aren't enough. Basically a 45 second quarter guy in a distance runners body with extreme resistence to acid. Few of us can ever hope to be that. But you can try.

I love peeps wrote:

He would never run 1:43 or faster, his chest is too small.

What does this mean? I'm not trying to be an asshole, just never thought about the size of a runner's chest in relation to endurance performance.

It's true that Coe's best open 400 was 46.96, but there is a big "but" which is the fact that he was 45.5 split on the 4x4 when he raced it. The 46.96 might've/probably wasn't his best possible effort. That being said I've read that article and it makes some convincing arguments- I just think that one is slightly flawed.

Big chest, big lungs.

Not completely truthfult wrote:

It's true that Coe's best open 400 was 46.96, but there is a big "but" which is the fact that he was 45.5 split on the 4x4 when he raced it. The 46.96 might've/probably wasn't his best possible effort. That being said I've read that article and it makes some convincing arguments- I just think that one is slightly flawed.

eh? most people can do about a second quicker in a relay than a race from the blocks. Your point is???

Marcus O'Sullivan ran 1:45 and his best 400m time was 51 or 52 I think. He was just tough as nails and ran all out for 800m. 52.5, 52.5.

Don't see many like him, though.

And don't start in on "well, he could have run 48 or faster for 400m..." The guy trained like an animal, if he could have run that fast he would have done it in practice.

Oxygen intake is essential for 8/1k/15/mile/2k/3k/3kst/5k

you have to have big lungs to be good. Its a must. you might have a medium sized chest, with outstanding efficiency and grit, but thats usually not the case.

Manly men have larger chests, and thus are tougher by nature. Little girly men have small chests and thus are more like women, or in some cases girls.

a few exceptions of course, but its a 'general' rule.

of course Coe was small, but he could run 45 high for a four if he bulked up and did it.

Wohlhuter, man, he was tiny, but then again, you just have freakishly fast people sometimes.

its generally true, but not always true.

in Wariner's case, he would be lucky to run 1:45 Imo. I think, if more Kids in America were running, and were exposed to coaches like Clyde Hart, we could be producing hundreds of 43-45, 1:41-1:45, and 3:45-3:52 guys. YOu'd be surprised how much talent is out there. In most of our cases we don't have it, but there are lots that do.

come across kids that could have owned Webb when they were in 9th grade, and these guys never trained. White guys that could run 22 point as frosh in highschool and Black guys that could run 4:30 as well. Of course what happened? They're sprinters or their distance runners. So, broad based rules don't always apply, even if they usually do. However chest size is more important than skin color. You just can't run fast in the mile/5k if you don't have a lot of 0-2 going through your system.

Rich had great speed, he was definately at least a 46x quarter miler.

How about this wrote:

Probably a 12.xx 100 guy myslf wrote:

I'd agree with the 48.00 time guess. I'd guess most 1:45 guys can go in the 46.xx range.

Rich Kenah ran 1:43+ and I don't think he ever ran faster than 47+.

douglas burke wrote:

according to frank horwill's article on the 800 meters rick wohlhuter had a best 400 of 48.2 and ran 143.5 which equals his best quarter x 2 plus 3.5 seconds per lap. coe had a best 800 of 141.73 and his best quarter was 46.96 so coe could run about 2 x his best quarter plus 4 seconds, quantorena on the other hand had a best quarter of 44.26 and his 800 was 143.44 so quantorena could run his best quarter x 2 plus about 7 seconds, horwill went on to say if you have a 800 runner with quantorena's speed and wohlhuter's or coe's endurance the record for the 800 would be 136 -138

Where did he get this info on Wohlhuter? It must be a misprint because I can remember him running a leg in the mile relay against us back in '73 and his split was 46.1. He was definitely a 47 + runner out of the blocks.

When we are speaking of the 400/800 meter runner their 400 pb is probably an accurate reflection of their true ability because their speed is what sustains them as world class half milers. But when we are iscussing the 800/1500 meter types it is a whole other ballgame. Many of them never run a truly competitive 400 or train properly for one. therefore, it is hard to tell how fast they really are. Who knows with some of these guys,maybe Marcus ran 51 in a relay at the ageof 15 and hasn't ran one all out since. Thhis is not an accurate reflection. Also, to know one's true 400 capabilities. the athlete would have to really alter his training and sacrifice his aerobic base. For the miler type, this would be counterproductive, because unlike the sprinters their strength is what sustains them as world class half milers. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to categorize a milers true speed potential just as it is to categorize a the 400 type guys endurance potential. As for Horwill, he a brilliant guy but their are alot of pieces missing from his arguments. He first says that Coe has a pb of 46.8 and has the best endurance of anybody. then he goes on to say you need great speed and Coe split 45.7(btw splits are normally within a half second of an open time) this partially negates his argument of speed through strength. All this being said I bet its in the neighborhood of 5 second conversion for most granted they have truly ran to their potential in the 4. (4.5 for milers, 5.5 for pure 8guys, maybe 6-7 for pure speed guys. But 5 seconds seems pretty accurate. So if a guys runs 1:45 the minimun speed is prlly bout 48.0 with most guysys being 47 men, and the speed guys going 46, 45, all depending how much they depend on their raw speed.

I love peeps wrote:

you have to have big lungs to be good. Its a must.

We are talking about the 800m here. Wilson Kipketer did NOT have big lungs and in fact had a fairly low VO2 max. He had an incredible stride, long legs etc. to make up for this.

I agree that O2 delivery is important especially for longer races. However, I seem to remember reading that lung size/capacity has little to do with it. You always breath in more oxygen than gets transferred into your body.

...horwill went on to say if you have a 800 runner with quantorena's speed and wohlhuter's or coe's endurance the record for the 800 would be 136 -138

Not completely truthfult wrote:

It's true that Coe's best open 400 was 46.96, but there is a big "but" which is the fact that he was 45.5 split on the 4x4 when he raced it. The 46.96 might've/probably wasn't his best possible effort. That being said I've read that article and it makes some convincing arguments- I just think that one is slightly flawed.

46.86, IIRC

Don't forget Nick Symmonds.

low 48. open and 1:44.5

he'll go 1:43 in the next couple years.