Runningart2004 wrote:
6 x 1mile at 5:00 pace with 2-3 minutes rest is difficult.
6 x 1mile at 5:00 pace with 1 mile jog shouldn't be difficult. Even better, slow them down to 5:10-20.
Stick with "even better." If 5:00 miles with 2-3 minutes is difficult, then slow them down, do not take more rest.
The entire point of SOM is to get to Labor Day feeling completely invigorated and looking forward to cross country season.
malmo wrote:Keep the intensity down. How far down? For a 14:00 college 5k runner, I'd suggest 4:50 for mile repeats, even slower (5:00), if that's what it takes to feel "easy."
If you're still around...
For a 14:55 college 5k runner (entering junior year)
What would you suggest for mile repeats? I understand you want it to be easy, but like 5:30 easy, or like 6:10 easy?
malmo wrote:
Yes you are wrong. I usually got over 100 perhaps once or twice during the Summer, with most of my weeks being in the 50-70 range. If I had it to do over I'd have organized weekly sessions as specifed in SOM.
Here's the problem Malmo. While the program obviously has some merit, you speak in tongues. You tell everyone to run as many doubles as possible during the summer, but then you say you only ran 50-70 per week in college? And this, despite having run 100-110 in high school? And then you point out Mahon et al as examples of how this works. But, surely, Mahon must have been way up into the 100s to get the extraordinary improvement within mere months? And you're saying that even with only running @ 60 miles per week one should double rather than do it in singles? Please clarify for the Dummies Guide for Distance Runners among us.
excited wrote:
If you're still around...
For a 14:55 college 5k runner (entering junior year)
What would you suggest for mile repeats? I understand you want it to be easy, but like 5:30 easy, or like 6:10 easy?
I don't really have any experience with 14:55 guys .... but, I'd guess it would be 5:30.
If you're typical 14:00 college 5k runner wanted to do 400 repeats I'd sign off on 68-70s for 12 - 16 of them. That's easy.
The point here is to feel good and relaxed, and not feel like you've busted your balls afterwards.
You should know that we've become SOM Industries, a mega-quasi-international conglomerate, and as such we now have a logo!
Bewildered wrote:
Here's the problem Malmo. While the program obviously has some merit, you speak in tongues. You tell everyone to run as many doubles as possible during the summer, but then you say you only ran 50-70 per week in college? And this, despite having run 100-110 in high school? And then you point out Mahon et al as examples of how this works. But, surely, Mahon must have been way up into the 100s to get the extraordinary improvement within mere months? And you're saying that even with only running @ 60 miles per week one should double rather than do it in singles? Please clarify for the Dummies Guide for Distance Runners among us.
The problem is isn't that I'm 'speaking in tongues' it's that your head is up your ass and you can't possibly hear that way. What I've said is very clear. You can't, or won't process it. That's your loss, not mine.
I ran 'up to' 100-110' per week during the season in high school, generally 80-95. During the Summer I ran 'up to 150 miles in a single week' in high school, generally 30-40 miles.
In college, I ran 'up to 145 miles a week" during the season, generally 80-95. During the Summer i ran "up to 150 miles in a single week," generally 50-70 of easy running, although sometimes 2 or 3 tempo runs a week.
Well, thanks from someone else who apparently had his head "up his ass." Just curious, why the drop from 80-95 in high school to 50-70 in college, and why the increase from summer mileage to mileage during the season? I've never heard it this way before.
Oh, and, I'm also curious. You still think doubling for 50-70 miles per week is the way to go? Most college guys run a single 10-mile effort everyday. It's a staple. You think two runs are better? Thanks.
Me also wrote:
Well, thanks from someone else who apparently had his head "up his ass."
Yes you do.
50-70 miles a week during the Summer. That's after three competitive college seasons. If I had to do it over again I'd do exactly what I propose in SOM.
Malmo, would you open to providing your email address for a more personal conversation? I'm very grateful for your wisdom and advice. Thanks.
Me also wrote:
Well, thanks from someone else who apparently had his head "up his ass." Just curious, why the drop from 80-95 in high school to 50-70 in college, and why the increase from summer mileage to mileage during the season? I've never heard it this way before.
Oh, and, I'm also curious. You still think doubling for 50-70 miles per week is the way to go? Most college guys run a single 10-mile effort everyday. It's a staple. You think two runs are better? Thanks.
I have found doubling to be much better than singles. Not only does it make a given weekly mileage easier on your body, it allows you to supplement your singles to get more fit. "Most college guys" do a lot of unintelligent things with respect to training (and life in general). That has included me!
malmo wrote:
That's after three competitive college seasons.
This might be a point some people forget.
When the basic elements of work, rest, variation and consistency are in place, it's always interesting to me how many different kinds of programs--summer, winter, fall---produce positive results. It's like dieting: if the motivation, consistency, healthy and active training take place with a positive outlook, well, of course good things happen. And well the should, and good on anybody who promotes and supports such programs.
But of course there are no unique formulas for success.
If the desired effect of summer training, before a cross season, (as I understand it) is towards longer single runs, rather than splitting into doubles - provides greater cappilerization... Aerobic deveopment.