Clarfiying Van Aaken

Vladimir wrote:

Only because she does not read this page I can say the following "she will probably go before the books" and I say that knowing that she is the love of my life.

I've also got a pretty extensive collection of old magazines, though evidently not as old as yours. My wife also suggests that it's time for them to go and I tell her that if they do, I will as well.

Ich vertsche.

For the last last 12 weeks I've been doing this, which is "phase 2" of my training. (Next phase starts next week).

The paces are from Jack Daniels book:

Mon: 60 (easy pace) + 3x300 @3K pace

Tue: 90 (easy pace) + 2x500 @5K pace

Wed: 60 (between easy & marathon pace) + 1000 @10K pace

Thu: 90 (easy pace)

Fri: 60 (between easy & marathon pace) + 10x100strides

Sat: 60 (tempo pace)

Sun: 22 miles (try to keep easy pace the entire time, or at least 2 hours)

I alternate the order of the speedwork I do after Mon, Tue, Wed runs so switch days each week.

Also each run includes a warm up and/or cool down, which are usually pretty slow, basically just to bump up my mileage to 100/week in singles without making the "fast" part of my run longer. I also do 6x100 strides between the warm up and the actual run. I walk back between each one if I have time.

So my mileage looks like this: 11, 15, 10, 18, 13, 11, 22.

Usually Wed/Thu with 18 and 13 miles are the hardest for some reason.

I normally do each run in the afternoon (except the long Sunday run) with a slow jog each morning of up to 60 mins (and I mean SLOW). I don't know why but the slow jog seems to work out any problems I have, and then I feel fine in the afternoon.

Every 4th week I only train once a day, either cross train or run (usually I just make up any runs that I missed during the 3 weeks hard). This way I make sure I don't burn out or get injured.

The week I set a 10K road PR I used Lydiards race week schedule as kind of a taper.

I've been trying to lift weights up to 3x a week, bike 1x a week, and do yoga 1x a week. Usually I miss some of these.

Hey man, thanks a lot! I've noticed that extra-slow morning jogs seem to help me too.

Was phase one the run-walk thing to get over your injury?

And how do your legs feel on this type of training? Peppier? Or comparable to what you felt uner your previous regime?

Still trying to learn...

Actually phase one was over winter when my local race club has a series of 8 races, and I basically used Lydiards \"race week/non race week\" schedule, which can be found here:

http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/Arthur%20Lydiard.pdf

(Be prepared for a LOT of time trials)

For phase 2 I was trying to get a more traditional base, but still keep some speedwork in there that I built up in phase 1.

Usually the only time my legs are dead on this schedule is Thursday when I run 18miles and then the 13 the next day.

The tempo run on Sat and the long run on Sunday are usually fine.

I definitely feel a lot better now than I did in college when we were doing as much speedwork as possible and lots less mileage.

I ran 5x yesterday as outlined in the "training for the future" chapter. The first 4 runs went pretty well and I felt great, but the 5th run was 11pm and I was falling asleep the whole time.

Chuckster, that sounds ambitious. The "training for the future" chapter contains some workouts that should be worked up to gradually, it would seem.

I did the 5 a day thing for 2 days in a row. I eat more than he suggests eating, but I have a bunch of nutrition books that I use so I think I eat pretty good.

It actually felt easier than what I'm used to doing because each run is so short I can just fit them around other things I do throughout the day, instead of just doing a morning run and a really long workout/run which takes a big chuck of time.

I have to ask, did you shower and change for each of those five runs?

I showered twice each day, once in the middle of the day when I found time and another before I went to bed.

If I remember right I changed my shirt frequently and my shorts less frequently, I usually don't have much BO so it's not that big a deal.

I also ate after each run, but it forced me to eat small meals instead of big ones like I normally do because I had to go run again soon.

Been away from the computer for a while so I had to do some catching up (reading). So Chuckster how many days did you do the multi workouts? I agree that the eating was a problem. I used to live on peanut butter and crackers at the time of these runs and lots of liquids. The big ones for me were Tang & chocolate milk (yes I know that milk is technically a solid). A friend of mine used to blend Tang, milk & eggs together to drink as a replacement drink (remember there was no Gatorade, gu's or power bars). The first replacement drink I heard of was EKG (from southern Ca). Well must go play catch up on my reading. Hope running is well for all.

It's sort of ironic that EvA's most successful athlete ran once a day.

Yes and if appearance is any indication, he rarely

ate more than one time a day also.

vladimir

I imagine you are referring to E.R.G. (Electrolyte Replacement with Glucose) which was originally called Gookinaid. It was concocted by San Diego sub two-thirty marathoner Bill Gookin and is still the best replacement out there. Their web site refers to it as Gookinaid Hydralyte, The Thinking Man's Drink. I used it for many many years.

I only did the 5x Mon and Tues, but I'm trying to do it again this week on Mon and Fri, basically in place of my easy days. Yesterday I ran about 25 miles for my long run and I'm kind of hurting, but now that I've run twice my legs feel a lot better, oddly enough.

Chuckster,

EVA did say that running should be "child's play." I take that to mean it should be fun and pleasurable and not overly fatiguing. It certainly is an interesting experiment to ramp up the mileage, but don't run yourself into the ground attempting it. You could probably guess the outcome if that is what you find yourself doing.

EVAs methods work. Whether they can be applied successfully at the highest levels, excluding Norpoth, remains to be seen. Even Norpoth's training remains in question as the info given on Hodgie-San's pages remains lacking in detail. That is, we don't know what the bulk of his training contained. The little we have is stuff he did just prior to championships/Olympics.

Bob Schul mentioned being surprised when Harald congratulated him on winning the gold in the 5000 in '64. Bob didn't know Harald spoke English until then.

Somebody on this board has got to know Norpoth and possibly could coax him in providing some more details of his training.

Trying to find any info on Van Aaken or Manfred Steffny with regards to advanced training schedules...

This is all I have been able to find thus far...

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.asamnet.de/~bayerj/laufen/marathon.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DManfred%2BSteffny%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.netscape:en-US

Any additional info appreciated.

From the link:

1. Week:

Mo 15 min Einl., 10 min Gymn., 4 x 5km, 4:15 min/km, break 3-5 mm, 15 min Ausl.

Di 10 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:45 min/km, break 3-5 mm, 15 min Ausl.

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 15km, 4:45 min/km, 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching

So test match Halbmarathon

2. Week:

Mo 10 min stretching, 30 min loose Ausl., 20 min stretching and strengthening

Di DL 10km, 5:00 min/km, 30 min strengthening

Mi 10 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

DO 10 min stretching, DL 15km, 4:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

Fr 15 min Einl., 10 min stretching, 3 x 5 km, 4:10 min/km, 3 min Trabpause, 10 min Ausl., 10 min stretching

SA 10 min stretching, DL 15km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching

So 5 min stretching, 30km DL 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching, br>

3. Week:

Mo 10 min stretching, 30 min loose Ausl., 20 min stretching and strengthening

Di DL 10km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching, 30 min strengthening

Mi 10 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

DO 15 min Einl., 10 min stretching, 6 x 3km, 4:00 min/km, 3 min Trabpause, 10 min Ausl., 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 15km, 5:00 min/km, 15 min strengthening

SA 15 min Einl., 10 min stretching, 3 x 5km, 4:10 min/km, 3 min Trabpause, 10 min Ausf., 10 min stretching

So 5 min stretching, DL 30km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching

4. Week:

Di Leistungsdiagnostik or 15km, 4:15 min/km

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 20km, 5:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4: ; 45 min/km, 10 min stretching

SA 5 min stretching, DL 15km (speed Halbmarathon), 10km stretching

So 5 min stretching, DL 30km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching

5. Week:

Mo 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:25 min/km, 10 min stretching

Di 5 min stretching, DL 10 km, 4:25 min/km, 10 min stretching

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 15km, 5:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

DO 5 min stretching, DL 15 km, 4:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:10 min/km, 10 min stretching

SA 5 min stretching, DL 15km (speed HM>, 10 min stretching

So 5 min stretching, DL 35 km, 5:10 min/km, increasing to 4:45 mm, 10 min stretching

6. Week:

Di 5 min stretching, DL 15km, 5:30 min/km, 10 min stretching, 15 min strengthening

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 15km, 4:30 min/km. 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 15km (speed TC), 10 min stretching

SA 5 min stretching, DL 25-30 km, 5:00 min/km, 10 min stretching

So 5 min stretching, DL 10km 4:30 min/km, 10 min stretching

7. Week:

Mo 5 min stretching, DL 10km (speed TC), 10 min stretching

Di 5 min stretching, DL 15km 75%, 10 min stretching

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 10km (speed TC), 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 15 km (speed TC), 10 min stretching

So DL 25km, 5:00 min/km-4: 30 increasing

8. Week:

Di 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:40 min/km, 10 min stretching

Mi 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:40 min/km, 10 min stretching

Fr 5 min stretching, DL 10km, 4:30 - 4: 3ominlkm, 10 min stretching

So Marathon, much success!