How fast will Goucher and Torres go on the 2nd???

godaman karl malone. are u the only voice of reason?

Carl Malone is an idiot, what the hell are you talking about? "No Way, no how"...hey man, cant make a judgement on Jorges ability on the mile since he never focuses on just that event...sure, make an opinion, but never say he ISNT CAPABLE of it. your not god with all the answers ya know.

In a sense his mile speed is relevant, in that you can only be strong to a point, like if Jorge truly is "only" a 3:42 1500m runner ( 4mim mile ), then I don't think he can run 13:10, because 13:10 is 4:15 pace, and if you look at the prs of guys like Geb, Tergat, Komen etc, you'll see that most of them can run about 16-19 seconds off their mile prs, Jorge isn't as strong as Geb or Komen thats for sure, they had way more training and base than he does. In this case I'd say 4:18 pace for him which is about 13:21, but you know he's in better shape than when he ran 3:42, stronger, faster, better so I'd say if he races as well as can he could 13:15-13:17, and gets the A standard, either way I think he'll get it, even though I'm not a huge fan of his he's consistent and a good competitor.

can't make a judgement on Jorges ability? He couldn't even win Big 12's this year in the 1500.

Perhaps the best thing that has happened to Torres's track season this year was an injury to hold him out of indoors. Now he doesn't have so much racing and as long of a season behind him to wear him out. I think one will get the standard and one of them won't, but don't know who. I think it will be close on both ends.

Guest wrote:

Does anyone look at Jorge's running form and lack of esseential finishing speed (on the world level) and question the wisdom in running the 5k?

Remember, Guest wrote lack of FINISHING speed. With his relatively inadequate kicks in conference and NCAA's, the point is totally valid.

am I the only one who saw him hold off Cragg at NCAA XCs? What about outkicking Meb (granted, not a blistering kick, but he pulled out the win)? The kid has guts, and that's what really counts. Pre supposedly wasn't a great kicker either...but...we all worship him. We'll see...

We don't all worship Pre and he never made it to the elite level of running.

Torres held of Cragg--okay, how is that going to help him in the 5k on a track. What's he going to do, carry a press clipping to show the folks along about bell on the 5k? He pointed at XC and never was able to regroup for either of the other two seasons except for a meaningless time trial.

If he is so great, he wouldn't need all this mindless defence about all the things he didn't win and the races he hasn't ran and the endless potential to argue about.

Didnt say he would be a favorite in a tactical kickers mile.

he lost his conference 1500 after winning hte 5k , and he got outkicked in the last 100 meters. Malone you dont see to understand the concept of how he would do much better in a faster pace race. Nationals same thing. He was with the pack until the bell and Robison and CO left him in the dust. His coach said he should ahve been able to go 341 off that slow pace but just dindt have it that day. He ran a 342 flat almost last year early in the season....Now come on. You gotta believe if he got in a fast race he would take that PR down by a good amount being as he is in better shape now. And he ran that 342 when he wasnt even sharp!

Mrr...reread your post and think about it for a second. Of course he would do better off a faster pace, because he has better strength than all of the runners that were in the 1500 final The NCAA meet only proves that he does not have great finishing speed. Read what ttc wrote. The fact that he cannot kick well off a slower pace proves that he does not have great finishing speed. I realize he is a 5k guy but if he really is a sub 13:20 guy that actually wants to do something at the world champs he should have easily been able to kick into the top 3 of that race.

If Torres really wants to make it in the 5k, he'd have to take away a good 6-8 seconds off his 1500 PR, which I don't see happening, because he's gonna be in situations like the NCAA 1500 for the rest of his career, whether it be 1500, 5k, or 10k.

Wayfaring Stranger wrote:

What's he going to do, carry a press clipping to show the folks along about bell on the 5k?

That's good shit!

"Mrr...reread your post and think about it for a second. Of course he would do better off a faster pace, because he has better strength than all of the runners that were in the 1500 final The NCAA meet only proves that he does not have great finishing speed. Read what ttc wrote. The fact that he cannot kick well off a slower pace proves that he does not have great finishing speed. I realize he is a 5k guy but if he really is a sub 13:20 guy that actually wants to do something at the world champs he should have easily been able to kick into the top 3 of that race.

If Torres really wants to make it in the 5k, he'd have to take away a good 6-8 seconds off his 1500 PR, which I don't see happening, because he's gonna be in situations like the NCAA 1500 for the rest of his career, whether it be 1500, 5k, or 10k."

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Yup, mrr, you have some weird disposition to say every guy "can do better in such and such race." you almost NEVER take prs's at face value. it's a goddaman shame. i guess coe's 1:41 is shit 'cuz he didn't have anyone to race with the last 50 meters. and geb? well, he could beat 26:22 'cuz he smoke everyone in the race. and montgermery? well the last 20 meters he was all alone so he could shave 1 or 2 seconds off his time.

goddaman.

You cant take College pr's run in college racs for face value because for the most part they are bull and you nkow it. Torres has never raced a 1500 in an elite race. Robison hadnt, Willis hadnt...of course if i said they are probably capable of 336 a month ago i would have gotten reemed for that as well..oh wait i did say something about Willis being able to go 336 and got made fun of. Tendforde and Dobson would have never been 2820 10k'ers without an eliter race. Webb would have never been a 353 miler, sage a 4, Magness a 401. I mean come on...If they guy hasnt been pushed to his limit...Torres never would have been a 1324/1326, riley his 1329, ritz his 1327...they wouldnt have happened without the pace to push them to their limits . How much weight can you carry on someone's pr?History has shown us that the answer is very little.

mrr82,

You are the most disliked poster in the USA, for every sport, on every message board in current existence. Carl Malone knows of what he speaks. We like Carl Malone. He is knowledgable, funny and a good guy.

Here's a way to improve your credibility just a tad:

Try to agree with at least one person at least every 1000 posts. You have now gone over 2 years and 6000 posts without acknowledging one person was right, or feeling you needed to add 2 more paragraphs to issue the official mrr82 spin. There must be a psychological explanation for this.

Speaking for thousands of sufferers: you don't know what you are talking about most of the time.

Congo the fact that you support Malone in your post just discredits anything you say. All my points are valid, and there is no way you can even begin to argue against my last post because it is true...which is why you resorted to bashing without making one comment on my post. I have admitted i was wrong before...when someone actually PROVED i was wrong. I am actually one of the most liked posters out there, a few mentally disturbed people does not speak for the masses. I hate to break it to you. For the masses do speak and i do know how most of them feel about certain posters, me included.

"How much weight can you carry on someone's pr?History has shown us that the answer is very little."

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read on these boards. Ever.

Oh and getting pulled along to a fast time does not mean that you have great finishing speed. Why can you not get that through your head.

Did i say getting pulled along means they have great finishing speed? Or are you putting words into my mouth...I was saying his 1500 pr doesnt reflect his ability. And my statement made perfect sense...I should have RECLARIFIED for you...College/hs pr's run in races that dont push ones abilities do not reflect the athletes ability quite often. Which History has shown us. Do i need to give 100 more examples?

Mrr, I might agree with you, but Torres has run his 1500 PR's in races where he got smoked, so I don't think his slow 1500 PR is from lack of competition, but lack of speed. Those 1500 races certainly pushed his abilities.

I say 3:39 for Jorge at best, no faster. Goucher on the other hand, could probably hit the "B" qualifier in the 1500.

He's 22 years old, for God's sake. It's one thing to make that statement about a 28-year-old Goucher, but not a fresh out of college youngster who still has two or three Olympics ahead of him.

Wayfaring Stranger wrote:

If he is so great, he wouldn't need all this mindless defence about all the things he didn't win and the races he hasn't ran and the endless potential to argue about.