LETSRUN DISCUSSION: athletes becoming US citizens late do you support them?

kartelite wrote:

Vipam I used to have respect for you but coming on here and whining about race you're no better than most others on this board. Come on. You REALLY think people would embrace Mottram as an American, well get the f out.

vipam gives us the most update information AND unique perspective on most elite athletes' status.

he is right about americans embracing mottram (many would do this because he looks more american meb or lagat) and even i would love to have him compete for america because of his attitude towards wanting to beat the kenyans. he has NO fear. none. hes already beaten bekele.

i think he would better serve team USA compared to someone like lagat who has alreay competed for kenya.

remember all of what i have said is coming from the person whos favorite athlete is tergat. a real kenyan. not american.

the country of austrailia would hate to lose mottram, and USA would gladly except him. same goes if webb ran for austrailia, we would hate to lose him, but austrailia would gladly except him (the fact that hes not from the world dominating country of kenya makes a huge difference.)

once again realize that other countries do not have these immigration problems. usually everybody stays where they're born, except for certain athletes who want to immigrate because of american technology/lifestyle/or because they couldnt make it on their own olympic team (kenya cough cough) because the competition is so extremely high.

sure, you could feel great knowing that we're living in the country that many people want to be in; but must realize it is a privledge to be here, and the athletes like lagat should feel guilty of beating webb, who didnt have to "apply" just to get here and wear the american jersey.

in response to the original topic, my answer is NO. i do not support them. as an avid runner and enthusiast, i hope of athletes reach their potential and set pr's. but them setting these pr's while while wearing the american jersey is another story. do you not think that the country of kenya feels betrayed??? do you not think webb feels betrayed???

the us olympic committee probably isnt going to do anything about any of this, but in the mean time, i guess we ignore the fact that lagat and abdi are wearing american jerseys and just watch them run fast. they will always be kenyans to me. not americans.

Vipam wrote:

Its odd that you would "lose respect" for someone who comes on the board and speak about accepting ALL clean US athletes. (What is the harm in that novel idea)?

Vipam,

I was being a bit harsh. And I know some people don't wanna accept Meb etc. because they're black. But you make it sound like it is most Americans/letsrun posters who feel that way and I think that is an unfair generalization. I respect Meb/Lagat and their accomplishments as much as I do those of any American...but besides pure racism, I think people naturally have a tendency to "root" for the underdog, which in both sprints and distance running happens to comprise whites. It was kind of like seeing Liu Xiang win the 110 hurdles. As I've noted in other places, people always regarded Eddy as a foreigner, even before his drug bust. Notice how many people were there to rip on him after the A sample, at least as many as there were against Lagat (who is a much more high profile athlete).

In short, I agree that Meb/Lagat don't receive the treatment of Alan Webb on these boards. But I think that the people who keep crying "RACE" on these boards are as much to blame as those who actually are racist.

And BTW I have been posting regularly on these boards since 2002, and it would not be that hard to actually identify my name if you wanted.

I can follow a kid who went through the US high school system as being "American." Why that delineation, I don't know.

Meb - I follow his career. I like him as a person. I've trained with him. I embrace him as an American.

Lagat - I follow his career. He's a nice guy. I believe him to be a complete drug cheat. I've raced against him. I do not embrace him as an American.

Buster - If he became a citizen, I don't care what Vipam says, he would not be seen as an "American" in people's eyes - not in the meet directors' eyes nor the athletes'.

On a side note, I think there's a big difference between clean athletes and those who everyone on the real circuit knows to be cheats. I don't care if you're American or not, nobody except other cheats like racing dopers. For elites, we don't welcome them into our national championships - no matter what nation we are from!

430miler and kartelite

I appreciate your points of view and just wanted to voice a point I know many posters feel. I do think that there are MANY (and I shouldn't have implied like their in the majority). The fact is that there are posteres who get on this board and their disdain for Americans: Bernard and Meb who are products of USA athletics is like one of you stated.

The truth of the matter is we will not change those posters mindset; however, to occassionally speak up is our duty. Now the time has come to thank you and everyone who have a clear and mature mind. I know we all have are favorites but we should be able to appreciate and accept all clean US athlete.

-END-

Vipam wrote:

The truth of the matter is we will not change those posters mindset; however, to occassionally speak up is our duty.

Everytime there is a thread about Webb/Lagat/Meb, unfortunately there is someone who says something like "Lagat's not American." Then someone retorts with something to the effect of all [white] letsrun posters are ignorant racists. So I don't think there is a shortage of people "speaking up," and unfortunately most people are not able to deal with discussions of race in a mature context.

So I don't think "speaking up" really solves anything, it only induces more lashing out. Personally I feel a connection to Webb as we both graduated from a Virginia high school in 2001. I support Ritz etc. as well, but particularly Webb. There may be other reasons besides race that people choose certain athletes over others...so let's not jump to conclusions. But when you say "Lagat is a product of US athletics," well that is a bit of a stretch considering he did represent Kenya his first 12 or so years of international competition. There is plenty of love for Gray, Maree, etc. on this board--so I don't think you can just say "it's race-related." Maybe black naturalized Americans...perhaps. But then you should compare sentiments people feel for black naturalized Americans to white naturalized Americans, which USA doesn't really have at the top level.

I keep it simple- if they have a "USA" jersey, I root for them.

If you got to ask, if you start a thread, he's not American. Too bad ....life ain't fair. Bernard Legat [sp] is a sub 350 miler and I can't break 5 min. Suck it up ! Bernard probley doesn't care.

My Views:

1) If a runner's U.S. born, then we've probably followed him closely a lot longer. I don't know of any foreign-born U.S. citizens who could capture us, like Ritz, Hall and Webb.

2) IMO (and probably many others as well) the Kenya/Ethiopia born runners have better running genetics than most others. I understand the U.S. is a melting pot. But when Lagat and Meb run great, it just triggers in my mind that it's the Kenyan/Eritrea talent, and not the U.S. culture that paved the way.

These reasons have zero to do with respect for these runners. It's also not a racist issue, as Steve Holman (while criticized for his USATF's) was rooted for and spoken about a ton. I also think my reasons above speak for some others.