Every other week during marathon training I like to throw in a 3-4 hour road ride. Add 20-30 minute stretches during the ride hammering at high cadence. Leaves you spent that day but running the day after is no problem. This allows me to add volume without getting hurt. Good suffering practice as well.
Due to various nagging injuries I have often found myself in the gym trying different cross-training devices. I mostly use the Elliptical over the bike but am always looking to improve where I can.
Personally, I have found the Elliptical to be a better cross-training device. (one without the moving handles) The main reason being is that you are essentially going through the same motion as you do when running (assuming you swing your arms back & forth as if you are running, which I high recommend).
Have you tried any training with this? Common sense would tell me that a similar workout can be devised, similar to that of your biking workout, that can produce similar results. I was just wondering if you have tried it ??
To increase my heart rate I hold 12oz fishing weights in each hand. I also keep the RPM's between 180-200 and often do farlek type training. It is always a great workout when I am injured.
Brendan O'Keefe wrote:
We started a program where I
would only run four days a week and spin on a stationary bike or swim
laps the other 3. During a running day I would run quality, either a
fairly steady distance run (6:00 - 6:15 pace) or a workout. The biking
days were on the same days that the other guys on the team did easy
distance. I would bike almost exactly the way 'backstretch' advised.
120-130 RPMs at a low resistance level.
Could you please list some sample weeks? How many miles were running total in those 4 days? What types of running workouts? How long would you bike for? Did you use a HR monitor on your bike rides? YOu also said you swam sometimes.....how often/how long?
Sorry for so many questions, but if you listed a few sample weeks with some real SPECIFICS that would be great for all of us and clear up all our questions. We appreciate your info !
'backstretch' and 'Jordan' its great to hear those stories. I didn't realize Meb integrated so much x-training. From what I've heard he seems to be one of the smartest runners out there. I guess that's what got him a silver medal over 26 miles in 90 degree heat. 'nifty'and 'ghost'I definitely spend more time on the bike then I would a run to achieve a similar benefit. On my running days I probably average nine or ten miles. A typical non running day would be 1.5 to 2 hours x-training, almost twice the time I would have spent running. I also do afternoon bikes in place of double runs. Any more opinions on what form of x-training is the best would be great. I have a lot of faith in biking. I did that and no other form of x-training for a chunk of the fall and was very fit. Mark Carrol swears by it. I think swimming is awesome aerobically, but I don't like to rely on it, its too different from running and besides 2 hours strait lap swim will leave you beat. I like to mix it in a few days a week, its a great way of strengthening your core. I know Web throws in about an hour lap swim each week, or at least he did when he trained with us. I never do pool 'workouts' because the days I x-train are just supposed to be pure aerobic base-work, I do run steady without the belt sometimes, helps your hip flexors/knee lift.
Basically I've found biking as the predominant form with lap swim and pool running sprinkled in to be the best program. I never really got going on the optical because you still have all your weight on your legs, although it is a lot less pounding, I suppose I've just become used to the other three. They do drive me crazy. I'm a huge outdoors man, I love hiking, running trails, kayaking, climbing, all that stuff. Anything where I was stationary for an hour at a time used to make me nuts. I used to bike the hills and mountains around here, but then we realized I was building biker muscles. I snuck into the lake at the park, got kicked out, tried swimming in our stream against the current and froze. Now I drive to this flat road nearby for biking. I even occasionally drag the ZAP stationary bike out into the field, at least then I get a breeze and the occasional passing bird and if I have it situated just right on a down-slope it will have moved a bit by the end. But basically its just become part of my routine, knowing that I'll be running the next day and its keeping me healthy gets me through it all. I'm finally out of the roller coaster ride of injuries and x-training isn't simply a punishment. Anymore experience or feedback with this type of training would be awesome, I'm still learning.
For me, biking did nothing but slow me down.
Here is my last week of training (January 15-21), its fairly typical. We're down in Tallahassee FL, at our winter training site for 5 weeks. I did a 3k last weekend at V Tech and plan on running either the 3k or mile at the Terrier classic in 6 days. Its more swimming and pool running and less biking then I would usually do because we have such easy access to the pool down here.
Monday 1/15 - PM. 65 minute run(10 miles) travel day.
Tuesday 1/16 - AM - Workout day, 20 min. warm up. 34 minutes on a 1200 meter grass loop, surging a 300 meter hill. Averaged about 5:03/5:04 pace, 31:40 through 10k. 10 min cool down. (11 miles total)
Wednesday 1/17 - AM - 2500 yard (50 laps) swim (39:00)
PM - 50 min. stationary bike (120 RPMs, level 4)
Thursday 1/18 - AM - 55 min. run (9 miles)
PM - 35 min. bike (125 RPMs, level 4)
Friday 1/19 - AM - 2500 yards swimming (38:30), 20 min easy pool run
PM - 45 min. bike (120 RPMs, level 5)
Saturday 1/20 - AM - 2500 yards swimming (40:15), 20 min. easy pool run
PM - 20 min. bike (125 RPMs, level 4), 25 min easy run (3 miles) on soccer fields
Sunday 1/21 - AM. - 85 minutes running (13-14 miles).
total running miles - 46
total workout hours - 9:55
I tweaked my hamstring in the Tuesday workout, I would have done another workout with the guys on Friday. I think they opened with a 5:18 2k on the track then did some rhythm 600s. If I had done that I probably wouldn't have had that little 25 min jog on Saturday. I average 45-55 miles a week, 4-5 days a week. I average about 9-10 workout hours a week in season, that's actually what I pay more attention to then miles. hope this helps.
I too have had issues w/ injury - and found that if I could get in 60-70 w/ 4-6 hrs. of moderate x training I had the same benefits as 90+ running. Reduced Prs from 14:17.4 to 14:02.31 in '05
I would not recommend eating a bike as a dietary suppliment. The tires are chewy and swallowing the gear shift is always awkward.
A lot of the time
I will supplement
my run with a 40
or 45 minute ride
on my spinner in
front of the
television. I
feel that this
really helps me
keep my weight
down to racing
level in the off
season. I am not
sure if I really
think this helps
anything other
than my weight,
but it certainly
does not hurt at
all.
Great post-
it really helps to hear a success story with biking! I've been injured since September, and have been biking (stationary) 2-3 hours a day, killing myself to try and maintain fitness. I get the Ok to try some "light" jogging next week, so I'm very anxious to see if the biking has paid off! Any similiar stories, and, if so, what was the outcome? Thanks again for this post!
bump
One question I had. Has anybody found that x-training at higher levels of intensity worked as well. I currently run 7 days a week (10) runs with 3 hard days. 4 days a week are just EZ 5-6 mile runs. If I were to say, add 2 days a week cross training at a high intensity, would this just burn me out? I guess my question has to do with recovery. Should your EZ days be EZ, regardless of the type of exercise you are doing?
Good thread
I am currently recovering from a stress fracture in my shin, and I use a rowing machine (concept II) to maintain fitness, it is a great workout.
The only time I would use hard bike rides is if I could not do quality runs.If you can't add quality runs add base miles.
diehl wrote:
One question I had. Has anybody found that x-training at higher levels of intensity worked as well. I currently run 7 days a week (10) runs with 3 hard days. 4 days a week are just EZ 5-6 mile runs. If I were to say, add 2 days a week cross training at a high intensity, would this just burn me out? I guess my question has to do with recovery. Should your EZ days be EZ, regardless of the type of exercise you are doing?
Here is an earlier thread I started when there seemed a virtual outcry on the board about cross training. This includes a fairly complete training program for one who is injured.
enjoy...........
The 120 RPMs you suggest on the bike is that for the hard portions of intervals on the bike or is that for everything on the stationary bike like the 2 hour rides?
Bump for an answer hopefully.
Does anyone have experience with significantly supplementing marathon training with cycling?
I'm planning to do Chicago this fall, but have always had injury problems with anything over 60 miles per week consistently. I've planned a training schedule that includes 4 days of running and 2 or 3 days of cycling.
The biggest training weeks will be as follows:
Mon - Off, or (AM) Bike commute to work, 17.5 mi
(PM) Bike commute from work, 17.5 mi
Tue - Run, 6-7 mi tempo (12 mi total)
Wed - Run, easy 10 miles
Thu - (AM) Bike Commute to work, 17.5 mi
(PM) Bike commute from work, 17.5 mi
Fri - Run, easy 10 miles
Sat - Bike, long, 60 mi
Sun - Run, long, 22 mi
Running, 54 miles, 5:45
Cycling, 130 miles, 7:00
I plan on sticking to it this year just to see what the results will be off this kind of training program. The only thing that might change is the 60 mi ride the day before the long run. I don't foresee this being an issue, as I have a significant background in cycling and am confident in my ability to get though a 60 miler pretty esaily.
If anyone else has expereince with a similar type of program, I'd be interested in hearinghow it turned out.
Thanks.
Hopeful bump-
Anybody have a marathon success story off of biking training - love to hear it!
Bumpity Bump!