Why is ryan hall running so fast?

joemw wrote:

Makes me proud to be living in Big Bear.

Hey I live in Big Bear too. Do you run? I never see any runners when I'm out training, except the Halls.

grew up at altitude yes, born there nope... the state of Washington gets the credit.

And the born at altitude thing has no bearing... unless you think the studs in Peru born at 13000 ft are better than we are... the Kenyans/Ethiopians definitely have a genetic advantage...I just don't think it has anything to do with altitude. And neither do they.

ghost wrote:If he manages to transfer his ability to the marathon distance, he might eventually be the first American to run under 2:07....

No running for me, I break down too easily. You've probably seen me riding my bike though, often with the Bear Valley Bikes kit on or a jersey with bright orange-red on the back.

To another poster...As for altitude not making a difference, many don't agree. The scientific literature I've seen seems to say that hematocrit and hemoglobin don't change much, despite much belief otherwise, but there is a shift in one's ability to buffer lactic acid, which means increased pace or power at threshold.

In fact, the last study I looked at showed that a group of people living long term at a bit above 4000 meters had incredible capacity to deal with lactic acid, but they are too high to get in meaninful training. No surprise that so many elite athletes are living in between about 6500-8500'. Much lower and you don't get the benefit, much higher and the capacity to train tails off.

joemw wrote:

No running for me, I break down too easily. You've probably seen me riding my bike though, often with the Bear Valley Bikes kit on or a jersey with bright orange-red on the back.

To another poster...As for altitude not making a difference, many don't agree.

Breakdown? Ugh. I hear you, I just got through 7 weeks of physical therapy for another knee injury. I went through the same thing this summer for the other knee, and again last winter. I'm 35 by the way. I hate long stretches of no running, but I can't seem to stay in one piece.

As for the altitude, it works! I spent one summer at 5500 ft in 1992 and I tied my 5k pr with only 40 miles a week training, when it took 75 a week at sea level before. Then, I moved full time to 6800 feet this summer and I got faster. In the spring before I moved, I ran 14 weeks at 70 a week and struggled to do 3 x mile at 5:00. After a couple of months living in Big Bear I easily did 5 x mile in 5:00 after only 8 weeks at 55 a week. How do you explain that, if it wasn't for the altitude. Granted I switched to tons of hard uphilll mtn running at 7000-8000 ft, but the intervals were just so easy.

As for your biking. Are you familiar with the bike shop across from the Magic Mtn Alpine Slide? I talked to the owner once and he said that there are several world ranked mtn bikers stationed at his shop and here in Big Bear. He scoffed when I told him that Ryan Hall is the best athlete on the mountain. I'm right aren't I? I mean the guy's run 13:16 and now 59:43!

It's strange that we'll keep doing things even though it's ultimately destructive. Part of it is probably that we don't think we can find that release elsewhere, but I can assure you that cycling month after month after month without interruption beats having 3 good months of running followed by injury. I couldn't even last 3 months though, so I had to find something else.

The bike shop you refer to is Bear Valley Bikes, and I'm very much familiar with Derek, the owner. We're friends. The problem is, he doesn't follow running. I grew up in love with it. I can say without doubt that nobody on the mountain holds a candle to Ryan. The mountain bikers he refers to are friends that occasionally train in the area, but don't live up here. Even then, mountain biking doesn't have the same talents in it that road cycling does. Of course, Ryan isn't back living up here either though, or is he? I havn't seen him or heard people talking about him anyway, it's all about Chad.

The place, surprisingly to me, isn't a hot spot for training, even though it's perfect for the full-time athlete who wants to live high (above 6500') and train low (below 1500', in Redlands), which is what I'm doing (well, 6250' in Running Springs anyhow) and have made tremendous progress since moving here at the end of July.

Why are "we" (some) acting like it's such a foreign notion that someone (Ryan Hall) is running well?

Talent + Work.

Not hard, guys.

Why is ryan hall running so fast?

Perhaps, just perhaps, he was getting tired of Chad getting all the big headlines lately? A little jealous of his little brother's footlocker win (Ryan only placed 3rd). Now he is showing he is the better Hall brother.

Don't be so finicky, Malmoe.

joemw wrote: Ryan isn't back living up here either though, or is he? I havn't seen him or heard people talking about him anyway, it's all about Chad.

The place, surprisingly to me, isn't a hot spot for training, even though it's perfect for the full-time athlete who wants to live high (above 6500') and train low (below 1500', in Redlands), which is what I'm doing (well, 6250' in Running Springs anyhow) and have made tremendous progress since moving here at the end of July.

Yeah, Ryan and his wife Sara just bought a house in Big Bear. I've seen them running in town a lot more lately.

So you moved here end of July? I moved here end of June. I love it here. I live right next to the 2N10 forest roads and loved training there last Fall. I drive to SB Valley College for inetrvals, as it was a bit closer than Redlands, and has a very nice track.

So, how do you cycle in the winter up here? I think I might buy some snowshoes as I really miss being in the forest and it's impossible to run through the snow uphill.

Hey, so maybe he isn't a consistant world-beater or even running his best times always, it happens with some runners. It only takes one race to get your name in the record books.

Generally when it's very cold during the week, I drive to Angelus Oaks and park. Then ride to Redlands, and back up to Oak Glen, then back over to the 38 and up to Angelus Oaks. On the weekends, it's a group ride in Simi Valley on Saturday, and Irvine on Sundays; so thankfully the past two frigid days I was going down the mountain anyway. The trick is to make the big descent first, while still dry, then climb back up. I stay away from the peak of the 38 when it's cold. Tommorrow I'll drive out to Palm Springs and do a loop several times that ends by riding up the Tram Road, otherwise training in freezing temps and low humidity is too rough on my lungs.

That's pretty sweet Ryan is back in town, it brings more energy to the place. I'll probably run into him now that I know he's up here.

I think Floetrack was the original instigatore.

sc42 wrote:

Don't be so finicky, Malmoe.

built in advantage ... wrote:

let's not forget that he has the 'born in' advantage of growing up at altitude, in Big Bear, California; an advantage that most of the top distance runners in the world SHARE these days. Obviously, not a small thing , as it's becoming apparent.

Being born and raised at altitude helps, but it's much more advantageous when you are talking about someone whose family has been at elevation for multiple generations, ie kenyans and ethiopians.

joemw wrote:

Generally when it's very cold during the week, I drive to Angelus Oaks and park. Then ride to Redlands, and back up to Oak Glen, then back over to the 38 and up to Angelus Oaks.

Wow. That sounds crazy. That seems like the equivalent of running from Forest Falls to Angelus Oaks and back!!

I thought recent studies on both the Kenyans and Andean people showed a different adaptation to altitude. The Kenyan adaptation favors distance running the Andean does not.

@ joemw & yesstiles

I have a couple questions about Big Bear. Could you guys shoot me an email? Thank you!

will people stop with the graceful crap, it is meaninglesslook at paula radcliffe... jack daniels himself has said that experts by vision alone have absolutely no success at predicting a runner's efficiency

joemw wrote:

As the others have said, Ryan's movement through space is nothing short of art. I recall seeing him running up "poopout" at the Mt. SAC course in high school, and he already looked better than any of the guys I saw at the collegiate race.

A superb talent, to be sure, but he deserves high praise for nurting his gift.

Makes me proud to be living in Big Bear.

[quote]anEconomist wrote:

will people stop with the graceful crap, it is meaningless

look at paula radcliffe... jack daniels himself has said that experts by vision alone have absolutely no success at predicting a runner's efficiency

yeah, remember how tortured Alberto Salazars stride looked?