Nothing but long slow distance.

I think Geb has run faster marathons than any runner Canova has ever coached...

benet wrote:

I think Geb has run faster marathons than any runner Canova has ever coached...

who knows if canova is right or not; who knows if he has the correct inside information. and certainly after his comments on drug usage in the sport, i find myself questioning much of what he says. but that aside, it is clear that, given geb's individual and public expectations, he under-performed in his initial marathon attempt(s). 3rd at london in 2002. 9th at london in 2006 (in 2:09...). it isn't as though his times were especially slow, it is just that he didn't win. and winning is what defines him. he himself stated --

-- that he needed to learn patience in his running, not only in the actual marathon race, but in the training for it. his quote in that link -- "I have learnt to be patient – even in training I have had to learn this" -- is exactly what i was speaking of. so throw out canova's comment, if you wish, because here it comes from geb himself.

tergat said something similar of his world record prep. he is well known for explaining his prior training: "i go out every day and run hard." but he had to change this for the marathon -- i've heard he ran up to 180-5 mpw -- and learn how to slow down.

all that i am saying is that when you are training for distances of the marathon and up, glycogen sparing is essential, so it makes sense to adapt a fat preference. slow distance running -- AMONG ALL THE OTHER GOOD THINGS THAT IT DOES FOR RUNNING -- is defined by the extent of that adaptation. we already have one poster noting that he got to 2:32 by only slow'ish running. i am -not- taking away or disparaging the benefits of long slow distance running for running in and general and the marathon+ race distances in particular.

it is absurd to think that you can achieve your full potential (in sub-marathon distances) when you leave so many of your fibers out of the mix of training. i am speaking from experience, as well as a personal search for explanations of that experience.

just read through all of the jk essays on this site. the hadd links. the mcdougal logs. it is clear that high mileage with recovery and a lot of work at steady paces can do fantastic things. but steady isn't slow.

it occurs to me, though, that we haven't defined "slow."

what do you think? 5k race pace+2:30min/mile, MP+1:30min/mile?

-hrm

yep, just long slow mileage here. the only exeception to this is racing, which i suppose is a big exception. i rarely run faster than 8 minute pace during the week. i race frequently. this has got me 15:06 25:20 and 1:08 high. I enjoy jogging and enjoy competition...I just hate working out.

How regularly do you race and what's the range?

Excerpt from my training log:

mon: (am) steady 1.10

(pm) 8 km tempo uphill+steady, 1.49 total

tue: (am) steady 1.10

(pm) steady 1.20

wen: (am) easy 1.00

(pm) easy 1.58

thur: (am) steady with uphill fartlek 1.00

(pm) steady with moderate fartlek 1.55

fri: (am) jog 0.45

(pm) jog 0.45

sat: (am) steady 1.00

(pm) steady with fast finish 1.00

sun: easy 3.00

easy: 3.50-4.20/km

steady: 3.20-3.50/km

jog: slower than 4.20/km

This type of training enabled me to run 27,54 10 000

1.01,55 HM and win the European XC Championship, where I beat both Segeyi Lebed and Dieter Baumann. That satisfied me a lot!

It´s look like clasic skandinavian "volume" training.

I would like see more training logs (or year training schedule) of Carsten Jorgensen - Europen cross country champion and one of best world orienteerer.

One winter season back in high school I only ran long slow distance. I think I got thrown into a 400-800m runners workout session twice. Most of my days were spent running repeat miles (5-7 at a time, slowly, with minimal recovery, up and down the ramps of a 230m hallway loop) or 8-10 mile slow days (through the same hallways).

We had incredibly bad ice problems that winter, so the roads and sidewalks were unsafe to run on and the track was thickly burried.

And my coach let me run a number of 3200s, but every meet where I did not run the 3200, it was a triple day, usually some combination of a 1600, a 1000, a 600, a 4x8, and/or a 4x4--occasionally a DMR lead-off leg. So these races would at least weekly break up the succession of incredibly long days. I found it to be rather beneficial. Come spring, I could run a 5xmile taking less rest than the guys on my team running a 4xmile. Their miles were 15 seconds faster than mine. I was able to take 3 minutes less rest each interval (2 min each time?).

So I found LSD to be a phenomenal gift to my spring season, because everything felt stronger come April and May and with the speed workouts added in, I found myself rather fit for the first time. LSD is best, though, when punctuated by very fast things once a week or so. Frank Shorter's old method used to be to run slower than anybody else he knew five days a week, and run his two--and only two--workouts a week faster than anyone he knew. He saw no need to run fast stuff 4 or 5 days a week. Low-key races can provide that fast run, too.

LSD, one or two fast things a week, and a lot of push-ups, sit-ups, crunches, pull-ups, chin-ups, dips, abdominal leg-lifts, and other core workouts can do a lot for strengthening your whole body. But if you want to be fast, you need to use that as a build-up to faster things. The nice trick is, as you get older, you're not necessarily peaking for three seasons a year. You can peak for a marathon, or a big 5K or 10K where you want to run well, so you can have a much longer LSD phase and use your races as speed workouts. LSD is great, provided that you supplement it a little...