If someone wants to claim he is "coaching" certain runners, he should actually be coaching them. It's not that hard to pick off the local talent and do nothing with them. When Higgins takes a handful of 24:00 females or 20:00 males and produces 19:30's and 16:00's respectively, please get back to me.
Maybe the key to successful running is:
the ability to recognize talent (either yours or somebody elses)
nurture that talent by turning the intensity up a notch with each season throughout the athletes career
Find a way so that the running doesn't preclude the individual from becoming a normal contributing member of society
My own opinion, but many "successful" coaches recognize talent and then do everything thay can to squeeze as much as they can , as quickly as they can, out of that athlete at the expense of everything else. The result is that coach may have an extreme number of high school or club success stories with little long term results. Are these coaches really successful????
Amby,
Great story. I remember Norm in his later career being called the "Gray Ghost," perhaps more than just a reference to his hair color.
Ghost of Igloi
jmsquare, I do know the situation. A few comments to your post. Liz did not "choose a college". Norm convinced her to pass up dozens of scholarship offers and not go to college at all so he could train her for the Olympics. That decision turned out real well. She then later enrolled at Central CT State so Norwm could train her (and override any decision the CCSU coach made). Remember the bit about skipping XC Nationals to concentrate on Indoor Track? You are correct about her passion for running diminishing and not being overtrained in HS. But tell me where the ECC is "overglorified"? Jill Akus, and ECC runner and CT state champion, was also ruined by Norm's intrusion. "Excellent guidance of Jack Maloney"? I assume you are kidding. Croff's HS coach knows 10x more about training and racing XC than anyone at SCSU. The kid was 9th in the NE Regional and only went unnoticed because of teammate Tradelle Ward's tremendous successs. Norm Higgins does know plenty about running, and his own credentials speak for themselves. The parents without the patience to understand Norm's value are Mr. & Mrs. Mueller, who watched their daughter be brainwashed into passing on a free education so she could train under the rule of Norm.
Wow, you really are close to the situation. You know what college she went to and when she started? Where did you find this out incredibly secret information?
I don't know - maybe you are close to the situation, I don't know. But so far, you certainly haven't revealed anything of consequence.
I never said I was close to the situation. Actually jmsquare is much closer to the situation than I am. I just respectfully disagreed with his assesment of Mr. Higgins and his coaching.
Norm Higgins was a Runners World regular in stories and results in the early 70's, as he chewed up the roads. (Back when RW was a real runners magazine). That's where I first learned about guys like him who didn't get much press in T and F News.
If you live in CT, you know ECC is overglorified. It is a very arrogant conference without the credentials to back it up. I'd rather be FCIAC or CCC myself. Croff's high school coach doesn't do much to improve his track runners past their sophomore year - with a couple notable exceptions. Croff and Ward's entire cross country career came down to the last two meets of their senior years. Not sure if that's too much to brag about. The jury is still out on SCSU with Croff. but he's already more consistent than at Griswold. You're spot on with Mueller. She should have been allowed to be a college kid after high school. A real one. Not Central's entire team with a "private" coach. I don't believe Higgins has one post high school success stroy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jan Merrill
CTruns wrote:
Jan Merrill
Right you are. I was thinking after I was born, sorry.
Both Jan and Judy Fontaine, but you're missing the point.
In addition, I have looked very closely at the SCSU program and Jack and Will are doing an excellent job.
Norm Higgins had nothing to do with Jill Akus. Liz did not have a dozen scholarship offers. Croff went unnoticed for other reasons after the regionals.
Liz won Foot Locker Cross Country by a ton (or maybe it was still called Kinney). Why wouldn't she have at least a dozen scholarship offers? Something else going on there?
Jerry Chester (Griswold HS) is one the very top HS coaches not only in Connecticut, but New England. His knowledge is expansive. I doubt (and I think that Coach Chester would agree) that he knows 10x what Coaches Maloney/Wright know. The SCSU program is outstanding. The skill required to guide a freshman emotionally through the first semester, possibly his first extended time away from home, in a way that allows the freshman to become regional champion ..... that's special. Forget about the specific training, just the capacity to put the kid in that kind of positive situation. Much of Croff's initial success can and should be traced back to Coach Chester (I hadn't heard that Norm had been working with him, not sure if that's true), but his regional win is all SCSU/Maloney/Wright (although I hear that Coach Wright is spending more and more time during the fall with the track guys doing pre-season work.)
Dr. Blackjack, I believe you should be more cautious with your words. You make yourself sound foolish.
Some Coach is right on target with what skills a college coach clearly must have to teach and guide freshman. Like I said SCSU has done an excellent job. I am tired of everyone taking credit and discrediting people who try to facilitate a young athlete's career.
The bottom line is the athlete has to race, the coach does not. This is not about who knows more, but instead what coach happens to understand the physiological, psychological and technical aspects applicable to the unique athlete they are coaching, and how will the athlete produce the maximal energy in each of these facets to excel. Igloi's system worked for Higgins. That does not mean that it works for others, as Burfoot implied in discussing the interval session at CC.
Igloi's system worked for a lot more than Higgins.
To make an assessment of a program on one session is just silly.
In general I was just saying that people have their own way of coaching, running or just completing a task. The end results may be similar, but the process to getting there may vary. Who is to say which is right or wrong? Both Burfoot and Higgins had decent marathon results but their approaches were different.
I am well aware of people who thrived under the Igloi system and what that entailed.
Like the username BTW - took me awhile to figure it out.
Interesting
Jan Merrill was awesome!