Three High School Kids Under 15!

Granted this is from last year, but you can check the results from this year when the come up...I guarantee at least 100 under 16.

32 under 15

160 under 16

Course is legit as far as distance; however, it is a fast course

guitar running man wrote:

Three high school runners from the Philadelphia Suburbs (District 1) went under 15 on Friday at Lehigh University. Paul Springer (14:47), Jason Weller, and Kyle Dawson. They were followed by 30 runners who broke 16. Is this the deepest district, region, or section in the nation?

Hard to make that call. XC courses differ so much that comparing times are not very useful. Thats why we have the Foot Locker meet each year so the best of the best can race each other on the same course. Then we'll know how good someone really is.

The course sounds legit alright...for 3 miles!

I last ran the 5K course in 1986. Is the course that was run for Districts the same course as Paul Short? If so, then there have been some substantial changes in the last 20+ years.

Back in 84 & 85 (the first years I ran there), the course started in the open field across from the indoor track and went East. Since there was no football stadium then, it went out to a Softball field, turned left and then went thru some cornfields, looping back to where I think the current Paul Short start is (about 1 mile mark). It then followed part of the current Paul Short course, looping back into some more cornfields (about 2 mile mark), coming out and running on the other side of a little creek (same side as the start/finish line), climbed a hill and then a long downhill to the finish.

In 86 the course changed ever slightly where a portion of the back cornfield was cut off (near 2 mile) but there was an additional piece added on before the last hill making the downhill finish a little longer. Folks estimated that the changed quickened the course by 10 or so seconds. Paul Vandergrift had the fastest District 1 time that day in around 15:25. He later went on to finish 4th at Kinney.

At some point after this, they built the football stadium and must have moved the start/finish to the Northeast side of the stadium.

Since then numerous quality runners have run Districts and States on this course including several mentioned in this thread and others (McWilliams, who is 3 years younger than me but would have run on the same course as I did in 86 and twice a top 10 finisher at Kinney, Coval, who is much younger and probably ran on a completely different course, and last years District one champ Keith Capecci who ran 15:07 on the same course as this years). BTW - the guys who finished 2-4 in last years race (15:12, 15:15, 15:16) finished 1-3 in this years race (with Springer beating Weller this year).

All in all, I'd say that the changes have make the course faster but in no way do I believe, with all the Championship races they have there, that it is short.

To \\\"i like him\\\": (btw, what\\\'s with the name?)If you haven\\\\\\\'t heard of them by now, it\\\\\\\'s certainly not their fault. They must have fallen through some cracks that people like you chose not to examine. Plus, the reason you may not have heard of them by now is because they\\\\\\\'ve actually been developed instead of being a phenom freshman year and merely maintaining. If you go to PennTrackXc.com and pull up the results page for District One, that\\\\\\\'s exactly the story it will tell. The first 40 something guys were all Jrs and Srs who actually developed, and are still improving. Sometimes I think people put too much emphasis on four year dominance. Those three sub-fifteeners may have more career ahead of them than some of the more well-knowns, so don\\\\\\\'t be surprised if you start hearing more about them. I think all three of them will go to FL nationals, and one or two could finish pretty high up there. Lehigh is a very fast course, and I\\\\\\\'ve had inklings that it was short when they changed it in 2004, the last year I ran it, but it can\\\\\\\'t be short by anything more than 30-40m. Short or not, make no mistake, those three are elite among elites. As far as D1 goes, there are probably better sections around the country at the moment. But PIAA D1 keeps getting better all the time....

That district isn't crap. In 2002, the top 3 in the mile at the 14-5A district meet were

1. Steve Magness 4:01

2. Erik Stanley 4:03

3. Brian Sullivan 4:08

Only the top 2 advanced to the reional meet, so a 4:08 guy didn't get to run at state.

southern section in california is the best section in the country by a lot

Also, Yeabud, not to burst your bubble -and I admit, it is confusing, because you'd think the distance of 5k would be standard for all state XC championships- But I'm pretty sure that was the Illinois state meet, which IS actually only 3 miles. Which in turn explains the phenomenal times. Still, those times are very impressive, even if they are on what I imagine is a course comprable to Lehigh which is a 5k(maybe about 30-40m short if run to the tangents), but is lacking in hills. Whoever said Lehigh had "rolling hills" gave those "hills" a generous description. More accurate would be "occasional speed bump (for a snail)." Somebody on a thread in the PennTrack forum said that Lehigh is the "Little Debbie Cupcake of them all." I couldn't agree more: It's not overly substantial, but it's sweet and tasty, and good while it lasts. Cross Country is cool like that, courses are fun for different reasons. Lehigh is awesome because you can run the Cross Country 5K PR of your life there. Everybody needs to stop hatin on Lehigh! And give those three PA runners the credit they obviously deserve! Peace.

My next question is do Springer, Weller, and Dawson all have a legit shot to make Footlocker Nationals?

section 2 in ny....have we forgotten about the saratoga dynasty as far as teams go, and the 20 some sub 420 milers?

wash wrote:

those guys are good, but there is no way the district/region is as good as the spokane area with mead and ferris. that is the best district/region in the country hands down.

How did spokane runners do last year at foot locker nationals?

I am not really impressed. Back in the 70's in Illinois it was common to see nearly 50 kids under 15:00 at Detweiler Park in Peoria. And the winner clocked in around 14 minutes. It has been done before - and some of us ran well under 15:00 in 10th grade.

There were 36 kids under 16 minutes in that race. Previous years there was average of 15-20 with 22 at most running sub 16. The top three kids are very fast but I can tell you it appeared Springer had a lot left in the tank. He made it look easy at the end and looked very comfortable in the middle just pacing behind the other two guys. I firmly believe he is capable of running 14:47 but I don't believe he ran it that day. There was a report on Penn Track that the starting line was moved up for this race and it was made up by lengthening a turn. I do not think the course was a full 5000 meters as it was laid out that day. I would guess it was between 75m and 100m short. In any event the times were still very fast and conditions were ideal that day.

My daughter ran 50 seconds faster than she did in her league meet the previous week. While I would really like to believe she dropped that much I do not believe it was the case. Hopefully I am wrong.

While I'm glad to see you mentioning some fast Georgia boys, I have to point out that his name is spelled Heller, not Hellar.

I think the state meet today at Hershey on a very very hilly course proved my point!

IL state meet today- 3 miles, 40 kids under 15 minutes.

Face it. D1 is solid. At the state meet, the 6 teams that qualified places 1-2-3-4-6-7. You can't argue with that.

greenliner wrote:

IL state meet today- 3 miles, 40 kids under 15 minutes.

OK, serious question, how short is that course? Will any of those guys finish top 10 at footlocker? I'm assuming the champion could/should.

The Illinois course is 3 miles. That state has incredible depth & I attribute it mostly to them only having two classes for the entire state. They put 4 into the top 9 last year at FLMW - Evan Jager (this years Illinoi champ) was 9th at regionals & Nationals last year. So he's the real deal. To further show their depth they had 7 in the top 16 & 8 in the top 21.