Are there any D1 Programs Worse than this?

This is my second year of reading this crap about GW. Sure, the team doesn't look good. But I'm going to pile on and tell you to shut the hell up.

Your bitterness is warping you. Chill out, go train harder yourself, and let it go. I'm sure you've already made your "legitimate" concerns known to the AD (if you haven't and you're doing this anonymously instead, you're a coward). Posting on this board isn't going to do a lick of good other than hurting a bunch of kids feelings and making you look like a dumba**.

Brian

Hurting their feelings? Feelings are irrelevant. If they are concerned about their "feelings" they should either change sexes are no longer "compete". If my words of truth make them angry, then great; I hope they train harder and learn how to race like men.

Posting on this board will hopefully make everyone aware of the truth and the status of that team. Should any recruit consider going to GW, they need an honest assessment of the team's abilities. And what can be more honest than the results? Results are objective and objectively speaking, the team does not deserve to be D1 status---nor does it even deserve to be "varsity".

Brown

Sugarcane their is an old saying"live and let live".You are not doing yourself or your running anygood by criticizing someone who is slower than you.This reply is not an attack on you just a little friendly advice.Try to stay positive and help others and you will be a happier person and a better runner.

Why don't you just shut up? Has it occurred to you that maybe not everyone has the predisposed genes necessary to run even a 17 minute 5k, much less a 4 minute mile? Maybe they were just born less talented. Well guess what, that ain't their fault, so I don't see why you're so bent on criticizing them and making them feel likes less worthy people and runners. Maybe they've all worked their butts off and just can't run any faster.

Maybe you're right. In fact, I'll concede that you're right. However, because you are right, they don't deserve to be on a D1 team or on a varsity collegiate team. This isn't high school nor is it some sort of striders organization. Galloway isn't the coach (although I suspect his philosophy prevails).

Brown

1. They have no fast runners.

2. Your goal is to inform any potential recruits, so that they can factor that into their decision making - and then, presumably, they still won't have any fast runners.

Have you got your spikes laced too tight or something?

Having no fast runners is a direct result of 2 factors:

(1) Coach has no experience in producing or judging talent; and

(2) Apparently, GW is considering dumping the mens program.

Brown

I didn't want to jump into this, but you idiots refuse to see the forest for the trees. You are the same fools who complain about the status of track & field in this country. Each and every person that calls themselves a runner should be as outraged as SugarCane. Although I don't necessarily agree with slamming the turtles, he has some legitimate points.

First, although GW was never Arkansas, it also wasn't a very bad high school running club (which, given their current runners, this is kind). The point is that the school said "running isn't important" and rather than hire someone who later took a job at a D-1 powerhouse, they ran some one whose sole credentials are running in some high school duel meet against 9 year olds?

Hello? Anyone get it? You should be outraged, and this will continue happening across the country. You're all too stupid and short sighted to realize this, instead you spout off about how it is mean to make fun of people who can't finish a race without walking. Schools are engaging in this behavior so that they can cut programs that "aren't performing". Well, they aren't performing because they aren't given the tools to perform. And when someone (sugarcane) complains about the tools, you morons miss the point entirely and chastise him for being mean spirited.

God bless the folks making money off you sheep. Man, do you deserve to lose your money in a hurry.

Many schools give short shrift to specific student activities. This is real dog-bites-man news. Yeah, too bad it's XC. But I've gotta pick my battles, and not get outraged by everything I dislike in this world. If it were my school, I'd fight that battle. And I'd fight it where it needs to be fought, by me and other alums hammering on the school itself, not whining on some message board.

None of this explains the puzzling behavior of someone who complains that a school has no good runners, then does everything in his power to discourage good runners from going there.

By the by, is it worth noting that the coach in question has a year of D-1 coaching experience?

AFORMERBIGDOG wrote:

Whatever everyone says about GW, remember they don't have a track. They've got some hotties on their girls team. Judging by the party I went to, they know how to have a good time...and oh yeah, Brooket's time is well below 18 minutes and under 2 for the 800. Peace.

Not sure what your point about the 800m time is. See the list below:

Event Mark Note Name, Class, School, City, State Pos Meet College Choice

B-800 1:48.94 Smith, Richard, 2002, South Lakes VA 1 6/21/2002, USA Jr Nationals CA Tennessee

B-800 1:49.68 Cross, Paul, 2003, S. Plantation FL 1 4/20/2002, District FL

B-800 1:49.8 Johnson, Jeremiah, 2002, Laramie WY 2 6/15/2002, AOC National NC Wyoming

B-800 1:50.1 Green, Tyron, 2002, Lawrence Cen IN 3 6/21/2002, USA Jr Nationals CA

B-800 1:50.4 Bair, Sam, 2003, Shaler PA 1 4/20/2002, Butler Inv PA

B-800 1:50.48 McGrath, Michael, 2003, Lincoln OR 3 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:50.5 Jaworski, Courtney, 2002, Curtis Tac WA 1 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A WA Georgetown

B-800 1:50.65 Smith, Christian, 2002, Pawnee Heights KS 6 6/21/2002, USA Jr Nationals CA Kansas State

B-800 1:50.7 Solares, Pablo, 2002, Richardson TX 1 7/15/2002, USATF regional Rice

B-800 1:50.72 McClary, Alex, 2004, Shelton WA 2 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A WA

B-800 1:50.73 Smith, Tramell, 2002, Willowbrook V-Pk IL 1 5/25/2002, State Boys 2A IL Illinois

B-800 1:51.02 p Haddan, Michael, 2004, Woodbridge CA 1 6/1/2002, State Meet CA

B-800 1:51.13 Kinn, Jimmy, 2002, Glenbard West IL 2 5/25/2002, State Boys 2A IL Illinois

B-800 1:51.16 Fitts, William, 2002, Desoto TX 9 6/21/2002, USA Jr Nationals CA Baylor

B-800 1:51.39 Lukezic, Chris, 2002, Auburn WA 2 7/12/2002, Bahamas Pre-World Georgetown

B-800 1:51.48 Vazquez, Sam, 2003, Flagler Palm Coast FL 1 5/11/2002, 3A State Meet FL

B-800 1:51.53 James, Tristan, , Dillard FL 2 4/20/2002, District FL

B-800 1:51.62 Dixon, Brandon, , Lamar TX 2 7/28/2002, USATF JO YM/YW NE

B-800 1:51.69 Daniels, Phillip, 2002, Columbia LakeC FL 2 5/11/2002, 3A State Meet FL Florida State

B-800 1:51.76 Solomon, Duane, 2003, Cabrillo CA 2 6/1/2002, State Meet CA

B-800 1:51.82 Bettinger, Beau, 2002, Castro Valley CA 3 6/1/2002, State Meet CA Chico State

B-800 1:51.99 Vogt, Adam, 2002, Auburn WA 3 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A WA Eastern Washington

B-800 1:52.1 Lagrenade, Stanley, 2002, Nyack NY 2 6/8/2002, Golden West Inv CA Georgetown

B-800 1:52.17 Craig, Steve, 2002, North Penn PA 6 6/15/2002, AOC National NC Duke

B-800 1:52.19 Flaherty, Ryan, 2002, Mtn View Bend OR 1 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A OR Oregon

B-800 1:52.24 MR Pitchford, Justin, 2002, Hinton OK 1 5/4/2002, 1A State Meet OK Butler CC (KS)

B-800 1:52.33 Bauer, John, 2002, Concord MA 7 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:52.36 Burton, Matthew, 2002, Prescott AZ 1 5/15/2002, Meet of Champions AZ Arizona

B-800 1:52.4 Debole, Matt, 2003, Mt. Tabor NC 1 5/11/2002, Regional NC

B-800 1:52.4 Sunderland, Kyle, 2002, Etiwanda CA 3 6/8/2002, Golden West Inv CA Oregon

B-800 1:52.46 Mayes, Marcus, 2003, Sand Springs OK 3 7/28/2002, USATF JO YM/YW NE

B-800 1:52.56 Sherrer, Shannon, 2003, Vineland NJ 1 5/17/2002, Cape Atlantic NJ

B-800 1:52.59 Finol, Tomas, 2002, Klein TX 3 5/11/2002, 5A State Meet TX Oregon

B-800 1:52.65 Gifford, Eric, 2002, Exeter Union CA 5 6/1/2002, State Meet CA Auburn

B-800 1:52.7 Jones, Jimmy, 2003, Mumford Det MI 4 7/28/2002, USATF JO YM/YW NE

B-800 1:52.72 Chapa, Joaquin, 2003, Grant OR 5 6/8/2002, Seattle Classic WA

B-800 1:52.75 Halver, Greg, , Paradise Valley AZ 1 5/11/2002, 5A State Meet AZ

B-800 1:52.75 Zichterman, Jason, 2003, Gunnison CO 1 5/18/2002, 3A State Meet CO

B-800 1:52.78 Woods, Christopher, , Covington GA 1 7/28/2002, USATF JO Intermed NE

B-800 1:52.79 Richardson, John, 2003, Ocean City NJ 1 5/17/2002, Cape-Atlantic NJ

B-800 1:52.79 Marlatt, Phil, 2003, Williamstown MI 9 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:52.84 Emmen, Tetlo, 2002, W. Torrance CA 6 6/1/2002, State Meet CA

B-800 1:52.87 Jespersen, Lauren, 2003, Klamath Union OR 2 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A OR

B-800 1:52.88 Gaeta, Phil, 2002, Oakton VA 2 4/6/2002, Mobile MOC AL American

B-800 1:52.99 Miller, Kyle, 2004, Cinco Ranch Katy TX 1 4/27/2002, 5A Reg 3 Humble TX

B-800 1:53.04 Petrick, Ryan, 2002, Warren Champion OH 1 6/8/2002, State Meet Div 2 OH

B-800 1:53.1 Keteyian, Courtland, 2002, Lake Orion MI 1 6/1/2002, Statemeet LP Div 1 MI Yale

B-800 1:53.2 Evans, Matt, 2002, Hempfield PA 1 5/7/2002, WPIAL quals PA Pennsylvania

B-800 1:53.21 Gustafsson, Jacob, 2002, Mission Viejo CA 7 6/1/2002, State Meet CA

B-800 1:53.24 Wolak, Matt, 2002, Mills Godwin VA 2 5/10/2002, Southern Classic VA

B-800 1:53.3 Ragan, Clay, 2003, N. Forsyth NC 11 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:53.36 Curtis, Bobby, 2003, St. Xavier Louis KY 3 5/10/2002, Southern Classic VA

B-800 1:53.38 Edwards, Robert, 2003, Bridgeton NJ 12 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:53.41 Johnson, Davon, , Homestead FL 1 7/7/2002, YAC YM/YW FL

B-800 1:53.41 Thompson, Terrell, 2003, Shaker Heights OH 13 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:53.44 Foster, Drew, 2003, Chatfield CO 1 5/18/2002, 5A State Meet CO

B-800 1:53.46 Garcia, Michael, 2002, Santa Fe NM 1 5/25/2002, Great Southwest NM

B-800 1:53.47 Hernandez, Jacob, 2004, Magnolia TX 4/19/2002, Regional qual TX

B-800 1:53.48 Valure, Joey, 2002, Live Oak LA 3 4/6/2002, Mobile MOC AL Southeastern LA

B-800 1:53.5 Perkins, Adam, 2003, Liberty MO 1 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A MO

B-800 1:53.5 Harford, Maurice, 2002, San Antonio TX 1 8/10/2002, AAU JO YM/YW TN

B-800 1:53.51 Patrick, Chris, , Smith's Station AL 1 5/4/2002, 6A Statemeet AL

B-800 1:53.52 Quick, Eamon, 2003, Mtn Pointe AZ 2 5/11/2002, 5A State Meet AZ

B-800 1:53.53 Gourley, Joe, 2002, Green OH 1 6/1/2002, Regional OH

B-800 1:53.58 Cooper, Robert, 2002, Columbia FL 3 5/11/2002, 3A State Meet FL Florida State

B-800 1:53.61 Schmidt, Tom, 2002, Faribault MN 1 6/8/2002, State Meet 2A MN Minnesota

B-800 1:53.62 Symmonds, Nick, 2002, Bishop Kelly ID 1 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A ID Willamette

B-800 1:53.69 Patterson, Travis, 2002, Royal CA 1 4/13/2002, Arcadia Inv Div CA

B-800 1:53.69 Harper, Cody, , 3 7/28/2002, USATF JO Intermed NE

B-800 1:53.69 Stratton, Mike, , Ironwood AZ 3 5/11/2002, 5A State Meet AZ

B-800 1:53.7 Solinsky, Chris, 2003, Stevens Point WI 5/10/2002, Monona Grove Inv WI

B-800 1:53.7 Arnold, John, 2002, Katy Taylor TX 3/28/2002, Cy-Fair Relays TX

B-800 1:53.7 Schmiett, Carson, 2003, Inglemoor WA 1 3/30/2002, Viking Inv WA

B-800 1:53.7 Coachman, Golden, 2002, Huffman AL 2 8/10/2002, AAU JO YM/YW TN

B-800 1:53.72 Manzano, Leonel, 2004, Marble Falls Aus TX 1 4/20/2002, Kansas Relays KS

B-800 1:53.72 Beglaryan, Argishti, 2002, Glendale CA 1 4/20/2002, Mt. SAC Relays CA

B-800 1:53.72 Billapondo, Aaron, 2003, Westminster CO 2 5/18/2002, 5A State Meet CO

B-800 1:53.77 Willets, Landon, , Tulsa Union OK 1 5/11/2002, 5A State Meet OK

B-800 1:53.81 Brown, Russell, 2003, Hanover NH 1 6/8/2002, New England Ch. MA

B-800 1:53.81 Hack, Jake, 2002, Woodstock IL 3 5/25/2002, State Boys 2A IL Indiana State

B-800 1:53.82 Lacy, Tim, 2003, McFarland WI 5/10/2002, Monona Grove Inv WI

B-800 1:53.82 Pancoast, Jim, 2003, Stevensville MI 14 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:53.83 Frank, Kenny, 2003, Entp CA 1 5/24/2002, Nortfhern Sec CA

B-800 1:53.85 p Wallach, Tim, 2003, Bishop O'Dowd CA 8 6/1/2002, State Meet CA

B-800 1:53.87 Lara, Nick, 2003, Alamosa CO 1 5/18/2002, 4A State Meet CO

B-800 1:53.87 Chiulli, Anthony, 2003, Collierville TN 1 5/16/2002, Regional TN

B-800 1:53.87 DeLuca, Ryan, 2002, Ward Melville NY 15 6/15/2002, AOC National NC Kentucky

B-800 1:53.9 Brooks, Larry, 2003, Stafford TX 4/19/2002, Regional qual TX

B-800 1:53.9 Cobian, Mario, 2003, Rosemead CA 4/13/2002, Arcadia Inv Div CA

B-800 1:53.9 Rinaldi, Damian, 2003, Birmingham VanNuys CA 4/13/2002, Arcadia Inv Div CA

B-800 1:53.9 Perry, Josh, 2002, McDonogh MD 1 5/4/2002, Draper Inv VA Princeton

B-800 1:53.92 Tatu, Alex, 2003, Thomas Dale VA 4 5/10/2002, Southern Classic VA

B-800 1:53.93 Smith, Leon, 2001, Poly LB CA 3 4/13/2002, Arcadia Inv Div CA

B-800 1:53.96 Chavez, Eric, 2003, Rio Rico AZ 4 4/13/2002, Arcadia Inv Div CA

B-800 1:53.99 Bohl, Stephan, 2002, Mead WA 4 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A WA

B-800 1:53.99 Carlson, Stephen, 2002, Louisa Co VA 5 5/10/2002, Southern Classic VA Kansas State

B-800 1:54 Burns, Gered, 2002, Guilderland NY 1 6/8/2002, Statemeet Class A NY Albany (SUNY)

B-800 1:54.01 Wall, Brian, 2004, Tacoma Baptist WA 1 4/20/2002, King's Inv WA

B-800 1:54.01 Hoff, Joel, 2003, Sheldon OR 3 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A OR

B-800 1:54.05 Karngar, Emmanuel, 2002, Shea RI 17 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:54.08 Cobian, Mario, 2003, Rosemead CA 2 4/20/2002, Mt. SAC Relays CA

B-800 1:54.1 Caruthers, Eric, 2002, Mona Shores Musk MI 6/1/2002, Statemeet LP Div 1 MI Taylor IN

B-800 1:54.1 Carruthers, Eric, , Mona Shores MI 3 6/1/2002, Statemeet LP Div 1 MI

B-800 1:54.11 Clayton, Alex, , 10 5 7/28/2002, USATF JO YM/YW NE

B-800 1:54.14 McMullin, Ryan, 2002, Arch Rummel LA 1 5/4/2002, 5A State Meet LA Auburn

B-800 1:54.22 Reid, Danny, 2002, Glendora CA 3 5/18/2002, SS Division 1 CA

B-800 1:54.25 Titterington, Jon, 2002, Tualatin OR 5 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A OR

B-800 1:54.29 Schwer, Cameron, 2002, Mt. Spokane WA 1 4/27/2002, Shoreline Inv WA Kansas

B-800 1:54.29 Steele, Bryan, 2002, Gaithersburg MD 18 6/15/2002, AOC National NC

B-800 1:54.3 Glavash, Zach, 2003, Chillicothe Valley IL 1 5/18/2002, 1A Sectional IL

B-800 1:54.3 Lynch, Caleb, 2004, Washington AZ 1 5/11/2002, 4A State Meet AZ

B-800 1:54.3 Roe, Brian, 2003, West Plains MO 2 5/25/2002, State Meet 4A MO

B-800 1:54.33 Griffith, Brian, 2003, Coral Reef FL 2 5/25/2002, Golden South FL

B-800 1:54.33 Boshart, Matt, 2002, St. Anthony's NY 2 6/8/2002, Statemeet Class A NY Yale

B-800 1:54.4 Siehr, Gabe, 2002, Roncalli Manit WI 1 6/1/2002, State Meet Div 2 WI

a few things about GW. first, they dont have a track team..they can go to a few meets, but its considered "spring cross country", kind of like how baseball will play a few fall games. they are allowed like 6 meets and that is it, so that right there will turn away a lot of quality runners who want to run more than just XC. also, i know the school costs a butt load to attend so the runners who have to pay all of their own way, or even a portion have to have some dough. i imagine its pretty tough to get a bunch of good runners on a team when you have a high priced, academically tough school when you really dont have a lot to offer in return. i know the grad asst. at GW and hes a good guy who is probably doing a lot for some of the guys on that team. so before you criticize try to think of what you would do to better that team with the limited resources the coaches are given by the school towards developing a their team.

Although I never ran for that team, I do recall much more being done in the past with the "limited resources"; so criticize I will.

Thanks for your input however

Brown

Okay, so about 70 graduating seniors went below 1:55 last year. That's just over one per state. There are over 3000 colleges and universities in the US--or about 60 per state. This means there is about one incoming college freshman 1:55 half-miler for every 40 schools. Throwing out everything but D1, this means that if all those graduating guys decide to go to college and a D1 school, and not more than one of them can pick the same school, 2/3 of D1 schools still can't get one of these 1:55 guys. And of course some of them will not go to college, and many will pick non-D1 schools, and the top schools will obviously get several of these guys apiece. When you give us a list of 100 names, and there are 10 million high school guys in the US, we're talking about the 99.999th percentile here. One in every hundred thousand guys makes your list. This means that on average, a college would need 100,000 males in its entering class to hope that by random chance one of them was a 1:55 half-miler in high school.

Yes, this varsity team is really bad (apparently). But if you had a scholarship offer at Stanford and a 8:55 3200, would you go to GW?

Kartelite,

Let's compare apples to apples. True, if you could run a 8:55, you would be foolish to go to GW. No question.

However, we aren't talking about 8:55 3200's. Rather, 18:55 5ks and being on a Division I team. There are recreational runners at GW who can run faster. The fact that they aren't on the team says volumes about the coach and what the coach is doing to publicize the team and attract talent

I think Teacher is the same idiot as Sugarcane. Both bitter fools. You are basically just a punk. You really have no argument. The program is obviously bad but it doesn't matter. Why do you waste so much time? Have fun being bitter.

By the way, just because it is Div I does not mean they put money into the program so quit crying!

There is an old saying, "There is always someone bigger." It is a way of teaching bigger kids not to pick on smaller kids. The message is simple: don't pick on someone smaller because someday you may be the smaller person. This message is especially appropriate for kids because they aren't advanced enough intellectually to reason through the issue, and kids develop quickly and at different rates.

The same proverb applies to speed. There is always someone faster. Yes, I am sure there are many faster than you. You are probably faster than me - I am 18-18:30 over 5K, although I am also in my mid-30s.

I think it is great these kids go out on the track knowing that I are going to get there clocks cleaned. Would you have the courage to step on the track with Webb, Kennedy, and 3 other 4 minute guys?

You know, so much about running fast is genetic. I could have trained 24/7 and never run a 4:30 mile. It isn't in my lungs or legs. But, I could captain to varsity sports (basketball and baseball). It never crossed my mind to make fun of the guys on the track team because they couldn't shoot a jump shot, dunk, or had no idea how to throw a baseball.

I took up running because it is fun, you can't blame anyone else if you lose, it is challenging, and I love the feel of finishing a run - NOT so I could say I ran faster than my neighbor.

Sugarcane, you aren't representing your sport well. Lay off the GW runners.

Seriously now---enough of this. Do you people really believe that running for a Division I team, whether adequately funded or not, can mean something other than trying to be a competitive runner? And do you truly believe that being Division I doesn't mean that you should be better than the average high school runner?

I can't believe that you have been so manipulated by our "running is for everyone" society that you now hold even varsity, DI collegiate sports to that lower standard. If you do, shame on you--really.

Varsity is not recreational. It is NOT for everyone and it was designed to be exclusive not all inclusive. Varsity competition is about competing against other fairly exclusive teams...not about going out and just "having fun". You try to win and if you're not trying to win, you have no business competing at the varsity level. At the collegiate level, the sport is further segmented into Divisions...I believe mostly based on the number of sports, funding, etc. offered by each college..premised on the belief that a school that offers and funds more varsity sports will also put forth more competitive athletes. Extending this to its natural and logical conclusion: D1 (varsity) runners should be the best and the most competitive of the bunch....they should not be there to "just have fun" (having fun is part of trying to win, however). GW does not fit within these guidelines. Unfortunately, the same is true with too many other schools.

I think you are joking.

Brown

Maybe I understand the thrust of your grievance better, now. You are really just mad that a D1 XC team is slow, from a D1 perspective.

This thread just became less interesting. Put me in the "why do you care" category.

You obviously have an ax to grind. Grind on, let it out, emote - just know you are embarrassing yourself - surely, you are embarrassed that this is what your situation has come to?

Keep pushing peoples buttons, and I am sure others will be suckered into giving you attention. I am done.

Idiot.

DI means they offer scholarships, and are of a certain size. There is no performance level required or assumed. All of your personal premises and assumptions are obviously not shared by GW. So what.

Whatever the times the folks at GW are running, they ARE the ones that are trying harder than their classmates that didn't go out for the team.

Recruits can figure out everything you're saying on their own. People who want to go to the Olympics won't go to GW. GW doesn't care. They don't have a duty to care. THAT'S OKAY. If I want to be an English major, I won't go to an engineering school.

Let's get to definitions. Sports are, by definition, extracurricular. They are, by definition, for fun. There is no degree in track.