I know a guy who ran 6:00 pace all the time and he never got any better. You ever heard of peter Snell?
I know a guy who ran 6:00 pace all the time and he never got any better. You ever heard of peter Snell?
miles_ryan wrote:
Go to yahoo, search for Pete Phitzinger (Spelling im not sure someone on here will know). He explains it really well. Running long and slow will increase number and efficency of your capillaries, make bigger mitochondria, utilize fats better, among other things. Running your milage faster WONT give you faster results of these things, but it sure will make you tired and hamper your recovery.
Yeah, he did. He got better at running 6:00 per mile all the time.
I've heard of Peter Snell, talked with him too, read his autobiography, talked to his coach, read his books as well.
Lydiard does not subscribe to the 7:00 mile philosophy as base work, if that's what you're alluding to. He does subscribe to postponing speed work until after a big aerobic base has been built. He advises supplemental easy jogging at 7+ pace, but the core of the aerobic build up is done at strong aerobic paces, not slow.
For me, I ran 7:00 minute miles basically all summer with some strides on occasion. One day I decided to enter a 1500m, and I set a huge PR off of no workouts. I don't think you necessarily need to train fast to run fast.
On the other hand, I thought I remembered reading that your recovery pace is a big indicator of your overall fitness, so who knows?
Snells 100 mile weeks prior to Tokyo were done around 7:00 per mile pace. That was after he parted with Lydiard. Sure u read the Bio?
The fact is that it is the CONSISTENCY of running, I recommend twice each day, that matters. Your body will find the correct pace, you must learn how much effort to expend.
You learn by doing this consistent running. It is not recovery running, it is running in a controlled effort regardless of the pace. This will build the conditioning that is essential for success.
As you become fitter maintaining that pace will become easier. The pace of most of my runs was between 6 & 7 minutes per mile but could vary depending on my mood or the stimulus of others.
I did many runs with Pfitzy that were way below 6 minute pace but were still controlled and not flat out racing. I trained alone most of the time and found it better for monitoring my body.
I was just wondering if all this works when you're doing lots of miles or if the same method should be used when only running like 50-70 miles a week? I find it interesting that so many good runners are doing this and running well off of it. I can't imagine many coaches would have people do this and know that none of my coaches have ever said this. I'm not saying the slow recovery runs is wrong just finding it very interesting.
i agree for sure. the fast stuff is what makes you a fast runner. running slow 80-90% of the time is ridiculous. i think the key point is to run your RECOVERY runs as slow as possible in order to serve the purpose of the run, which is recovery. and then you're recovered and can get to work on faster stuff which will help you. wejo does slow stuff to recover and prevent injuries, which will in effect allow him more opportunity to do fast stuff and get fast. don't run slow all the time hoping to get fast.
There are many factors that go into a performance, for sure. I don't know, but are you forgetting that you did an amount of speedwork before you did your steady summer running with pickups? Perhaps adaptations from the speedwork that you might have done were retained even as you put your training energy into running slower paced miles supplemented with quick strides.
There are some people who seem always ready to run fast if they have their endurance in order. There are others, the majority, who need a phase of fast running before they can run fast even if their endurance is high. Perhaps you are a bit more like the former.
ouch josh you dont have to bring me into this thread....
Are you really recovering on a recovery run or really just doing enough work to make sure you don't actually start slipping backwards? There is apparently no evidence to suggest that recovery is enhanced by "flushing" the muscles. It does temporarily relieve muscle soreness but the duration of soreness apparently doesn't change.
I think all of you are maybe taking this a bit too far. I think Americans are a bit tentative to come out of their comfort zone and really bust balls. Recovery days are vital, but every bit as vital to recovery is eating well and getting closer to 9-10 hours of sleep a night. I know that Arkansas does all their runs at well under 6 minute pace, with elites such as Cragg, Lincoln and Mulvaney consistently running 5:30-5:40, even for runs as long as 16 miles. After especially grueling workouts, the recovery run might hit 47-48 for 8 miles, but no slower. However, the morning mileage is very easy, no faster than 28-29 mins. for 4 miles.
Everyone's body is different, but this system has worked well for the hogs over the years.
Actually he didnt improve, he has yet to break 17:00 for 5k.
And he does all his milage around 6:00 pace. Or did at JMU.
Well you cant just jump into 100mpw. Im only 17 and havent been doing this milage stuff for long. I plan on running competitivly in college so if i run 7:00 per mile then i can increase the milage faster and still get in good workouts. Besides for my body at present handels 50-70mpw like a marathon'ers handels 100mpw. After a while 70mpw will get easy and ill move on up. My coach knows what he's doing. Im improving greatly.
Roy Benson taught me using the HR monitor -- usually the easy aerobic days were at 1:30-2:00 slower than date 10k race pace. So for me, a 30:45 10k runner when in shape, that would be 6:30-7 pace (a little slower on easy mornign runs before hard workouts). Early season, when I was only in 32:00 shape, it would be 7:15-45 or so.
I think what Wejo's doing is a tad on the slow side, but I don't recommend slamming 5:30 pace all the time for an elite either.
You don't need a stopwatch or a HRM to know when you're running "easy" versus "hard." Hard days, go hard. Easy days, go easy. The more you do that, the faster each flavor of running will be.
This formula is becoming the standard for all endurance training, keeping the mix of rest, diet and training.
Check this out.
Lydiard has advocated the LSD runs. Long SLow distance. He talked about doing them for 5 hours or so. I don't really know people that have done the 5 hour runs, but the LSD runs are shown to work. I'm pretty sure that the LSD runs will deplete your slow-twitch fibers.
technically i did break 17 going through in a ten k josh...but the point is here that there are lots of good guys who run six minute pace or faster, my roomate does this, and just dropped his 15 to 3:51, and his 8 to 1:51...for every sucess story you have with faster aerobic threshold training you will have a case like myself where the recovery time is not great enough and it dosent work..frankly i had a back problem that sidelined me and messed with my biomechanics, and until i got that fixed nothing was going to make me run faster.
everyone should check out
this guy has got his training down almost perfectly. you need a mix of everything. easy runs, steady states, tempo runs, and workouts. yes you need those days where you are jogging and yes you need those days where your right under the point of accumulating lactic acid so your not tired day in and day out, then you need the days where you are going at your threshold pace (tempo) and then you need to get on the track or course and do some intervals. really when it comes down to it you can't have too much of one or the other, you need a balance of each, yes some aspects are needed more during different parts of a season but when it all comes down to it you need it all. they can all be fit into one week as well. maybe right now for college guys hard track work might have to be spared but the other 3 aspects can still be used.