Reasons why Teg needs to run a 10,000 soon

Put Ritz and Teg in a 10K and see what happens.

Zat0pek wrote:

kiddin me? wrote:yes! So lets guarentee his burnout witha 10k..it worked for webb!

post hoc ergo propter hoc .

"post hoc ergo propter hoc" is Latin for "the crowing of the rooster causes the sun to rise".

3:30 = 13:04?!?! OF COURSE NOT.

IAAF scoring tables:

3:30.50 = 1238 points, what 5k time does that correspond with? 12:55.59 -- not even close.

2005 top perfomances:

Four unique runners under 3:31.0 for 1500m, TWENTY FOUR unique runners were under 13:04.90 -- again, not even close.

Compared to WR:

3:26.00 vs 3:30.50 = 102.185%

102.185% of the 5k WR is: 12:53.89 -- yet again, not even close.

Now with that aside, I think Teg should go for the AR in the 10,000m. I beleive that Lagat, baring any injury, will take the 5000 AR to a level that Teg can never touch. His best bet then would be the 10,000m, and like mentioned, this may be his one and only chance to get it.

OK, It is now official. Teg is not a surprise now to anyone. He is now officially "open game" for any second guesser out there (he has not even failed yet, this is a new record). No matter what he does in the next few years now, he will have numerous "second-guessers" criticizing his and his coaches decisions! It is the "American Way".

Well, I for one enjoy reading the "crap out there", but only for humor and entertainment (and sociological studies)

Look, I coach some pretty good runners; yes Teg could run a 10k this year (Zat you usually have some very good points), but is it worth it at this point when it was not in the plans? He is in a 3k soon and has the World Cup 5K (his first chance to represent the U.S. at the senior level) Will he ever run this fast again? Will he ever have these opportunities again???? Who knows? He's young and he and Coach S have to believe that this is just a beginning. We are so use to "being desparate" in the U.S. distance running scene when it comes to competing at the world class level that I do understand where the concern is coming from. Zat, I do not know if you and some of the others coach, are "arm-chair" quarterbacks, former runners (I would assume, at least), but if you were in the shoes of Schumacher, what would you really do. Change the plan? Tell Teg that he is running a 10k at Zurich? (could he get in the field?) Or more than likely try to convince Teg that it might be wise to try a fast 10k in a very fast European field, now!!!! Big decisions and good discussion topic. Hopefully, expectations now on Teg will not change him a whole lot; this kid is on fire and this will fun to watch!!!

teg will not get the ar in any distance, atleast until he's been on the elite scene for a couple of years. hes no bob kennedy, hes more of a tim broe or ian dobson type runner.

he doesnt need to run the 10,000;

1. because thats not his distance (even though we havent seen great 10ks from him on the track), his event is the 5000, and even if youre wanting him to run the 10000 as part of his 5k training regimen, thats not going to work right now, especially while hes trying to make the transition from college to elite.

2. the 10,000 just isnt going to help him at this point in his career. just because he's run low 13's doesnt mean that he can run mid 27's. id like to see him runs 28s in a loaded field. if he can even run nid-high 28's in a loaded field then thats pretty darn good for him. you think he needs endurance races ? ha. no. he needs more speed. teg is more of a 3k/5k guy than a 5k/10k guy. all he needs is more speed and he can compete on the elite level for 3k/5k.

3. if he focuses on those distances, he can very well be the next craig motram in little as 3 years.

i've been saying since his 5k that teg should run a 10k this year. one race at a similar distance is simply not likely to burn him out or get him injured. he's clearly in shape for it, he's not about to set any american records at 1500m or mile, and the american record at 10k is eminently attainable. at the very least, he would be likely to set down a top three all time american performance. think about it this way, you have two options: there are two baskets of money. you already reached into one of them and grabbed most of it. now you get one more chance. do you reach into the first and get a few more bucks, or do you reach into the second and get a bunch of money? the choice is obvious. teg should by all means run another 5k to try to get the american record or at least break 13, but he needs to clear the space for one 10k. I just can't see him getting an american record at 3k and he's not about to run 3:29 1500m. why not go for a 27:12 10k?

I agree with you zat, and I think if he and his coach can fit one into the plan they certainly should. Are there any good 10k's at the end of september that he could throw in as one last hard effort?

Trolls sure are annoying.

I like how you throw Tim Broe and Ian Dobson in the same sentence to stir up some conflict and the "nid-high 28's in a loaded field" is pretty good as well.

Anyway, you may get some 14 year olds pissed off at Dyestat but over here you're just another lifeless idiot that needs to get laid.

13:04 was ~ to 3:30.xx prior to the advent of EPO. That's not an accusation against anyone in particular, just a statistically supportable fact.

Tegenkamp has had a great season thus far. I wouldn't mess with the plan. Confidence can be a snarky thing, and getting hammered in a Brussels or Koblenz 10K might not be what Teg needs right now. Let's see if this guy can have a long career and not succumb to message board immediate gratification pleas. Find other things in life to make you happy.

Great comments.

What would I do? I would tell Teg exactly what I've said on this thread. Then we would discuss what we thought the chances are that he would move up to to 10,000, especially in the next two years with the WCs and Olys. If there was a fairly decent chance, I'd suggest he think about it, especially get his Q out of the way. It needs to be Tegs call, and he needs to feel comfortable with what would probably be a change in plans. But hey, sometimes we need to change plans. At the same time, I'd look for a 10,000 in the next few weeks that I thought would be good for him.

Reasons Why Teg Shouldn't Run the 10,000...

1. He's doing pretty well at the 5k. What if he just went for the American record in that?

2. If he wants to focus on the 5k for the Olympics then what's the point of running a 10k? Just because the record is easier to break? So he can have two A standards and look for the easiest field? Why should he let competition dictate his race?

3. A 10k does take a lot of your legs. Will it burn him out - no. But if he's close to peaking or in his peak phase then if he runs a 10k he'll pretty much have to take the next week off before racing again. But if he runs a 5k he could race on back to back weekends to give him two shots to break 13. Furthermore, since he's well into his season he's probably dropped his mileage down to run fast, and he hasn't been focusing on the 10k, so who's to say he'll go out there and run fast?

4. He does have something to lose. Nobody likes running badly.

5. As far as I know, he doesn't want to, and last I checked it's his career.

6. There are coaches in America who believe the exact opposite of you. That our biggest problem is we immediately move everyone up too soon instead of focusing on their speed early. This is one of the reasons why we don't have very many world class 800 meter runners anymore, and why our distance runners never have a strong enough kick at the end of races. You probably would have made Seb Coe a 5k runner.

^^^ why the attacking nature of your post? Zat simply made an observation that is certainly worth discussing. Its a point of view, care to count how many times he uses the word "opinion"? No need to lob thinly veiled insults his way.

P.S. is Zurich the only big 10k left in Europe this season?

Bum Dum wrote:

3:30 = 13:04?!?! OF COURSE NOT.

IAAF scoring tables:

3:30.50 = 1238 points, what 5k time does that correspond with? 12:55.59 -- not even close.

2005 top perfomances:

Four unique runners under 3:31.0 for 1500m, TWENTY FOUR unique runners were under 13:04.90 -- again, not even close.

Compared to WR:

3:26.00 vs 3:30.50 = 102.185%

102.185% of the 5k WR is: 12:53.89 -- yet again, not even close.

Exactly. I was not just nit picking as Zat i believe said. His time comparison was just flat out wrong by a lot. 1305 is a 334 1500 equivelent, give or take a half a second. These are the facts. Zat...a 330 is 4 seconds off the world record and 1305 28?? to scale are those even close? Think about that. 330 1500 puts you as one of the best in the world, 1305 does not.

Teg seen doing high altitude training in Lincoln, Nebraska today!

sxyirishman1 wrote:

^^^ why the attacking nature of your post? Zat simply made an observation that is certainly worth discussing. Its a point of view, care to count how many times he uses the word "opinion"? No need to lob thinly veiled insults his way.

Eh, tools will be tools.

Good to see you online again. Drop by the LL sometime.

This is a better-than-average LetsRun thread (even if I think that he should not race a 10,000 this year.

Teg has as his most important race the 5000 at the World Cup, his first big International meet (he did race well at WC XC as a Junior/5th). He needs speed for that race, as it is a Championship 5000 where only place matters. It will yo-yo in pace and go fast at the end. He needs to be able to run the last 1200 in under 3:00 (well under if the pace is slow). He will try to run like he did with Lagat at Nationals. It will give him an extra boost that Lagat said that we was on the edge given Teg's surge in the closing laps, especially since Lagat turned around and beat KB.

Teg/Jerry S have been cautious about mileage and is slowly building up the mileage after Teg's college injuries related to adjusting to higher mileage/intensity (complicated by growing four inches). Teg has stated that he thinks he will eventually end up in the 10,000 but is currently focused on the 5000. If he can have enough patience to wait so can we.

Jerry has apparently found a way to develop miler speed and remember that Jerry was a pretty good college miler. He also has a pretty good amount of experience now even though he is only in his 30s. He also has done pretty well this year with Bairu/team winning XC, Solinsky 3000i/5000 double with flair, and Teg.

[These comments belong in here as well!]

Reasons Why Teg Shouldn't Run the 10,000...

1. He's doing pretty well at the 5k. What if he just went for the American record in that?

2. If he wants to focus on the 5k for the Olympics then what's the point of running a 10k? Just because the record is easier to break? So he can have two A standards and look for the easiest field? Why should he let competition dictate his race?

3. A 10k does take a lot of your legs. Will it burn him out - no. But if he's close to peaking or in his peak phase then if he runs a 10k he'll pretty much have to take the next week off before racing again. But if he runs a 5k he could race on back to back weekends to give him two shots to break 13. Furthermore, since he's well into his season he's probably dropped his mileage down to run fast, and he hasn't been focusing on the 10k, so who's to say he'll go out there and run fast?

4. He does have something to lose. Nobody likes running badly.

5. As far as I know, he doesn't want to, and last I checked it's his career.

6. There are coaches in America who believe the exact opposite of you. That our biggest problem is we immediately move everyone up too soon instead of focusing on their speed early. This is one of the reasons why we don't have very many world class 800 meter runners anymore, and why our distance runners never have a strong enough kick at the end of races. You probably would have made Seb Coe a 5k runner.

sxyirishman1 wrote:

^^^ why the attacking nature of your post? Zat simply made an observation that is certainly worth discussing. Its a point of view, care to count how many times he uses the word "opinion"? No need to lob thinly veiled insults his way.

P.S. is Zurich the only big 10k left in Europe this season?

Typically, Zurich does not have a 10K race. Brussels does have a 10K and is usually loaded, and that meet takes place late Aug/early Sep most years (I'm too lazy to go on the IAAF page and check the exact date). Other than that, I can't think of any big late season 10Ks. It's pretty much Hengelo & Oslo for the 1st half of the season and Brussels for the 2nd half.

The schedule for the Van Damme Memorial in Brussels doesn't show a 10K. Nor do those for Zurich, Monaco, or Berlin.

Does anyone know where there will be a fast 10K on the track in Europe in August or September?