On the podcast this week, Rojo teased that Nick Willis had the perfect explanation for why non-African runners are suddenly competitive the last 5 years, but is keeping it behind the paywall. The poor masses want to know!!!!
My theory is that super shoes just do what your Achilles tendon and plantar fascia are supposed to do already, in terms of mechanical force return, but this trait is underdeveloped in many Western runners, who run wearing overly cushioned shoes.
1) yes shoes were one reason. Nick said he personally went to school without shoes. How many Western kids do that? So essentially he was a New Zealand Kenyan in that since and it helped me. Stronger tendons.
2) Altitude- used to be only the top Africans trained at altitude. Now all top runners train at altitude for parts of the year. When I was in Flagstaff in 2000-2004 I was one of like 3 runners not on the NAU team. Bob Kennedy didn't think he needed to train at altitude or wasn't a responder.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
So add those up and everyone is closer to the same level.
My question now is why has the marathon not seen the convergence as much?
Makes sense? I would add that i think we undervalue the degree to which information spreads, no secrets anymore. Someone does double threshold next thing you know everyone is. People did articles on how africans train decades ago. So yea, running in professional groups, at altitude, doing same workouts, altitude, and maybe the shoes as an equalizer? No evidence for that but it makes some physiological sense. If bicarb helps everyone im not sure how helps us close the gap? But Nick knows all.
I'd add in that more and more Africans (Kenyans specifically) are finally getting popped for doping. So now they're cutting back on it or at least trying to manipulate how to microdose and therefore aren't getting the full benefits of a decade of unfiltered injections without oversight. So that's quite likely another factor involved.
I would think bi carb and super shoes are the bigger factors nowadays. Yes, we know altitude is beneficial of course, but take case of Yared Nuguse. Five years ago he was the NCAA record holder for 1500m, but now is 15th on the all time list. To me that seems more the doings of bi card and super shoes, rather than altitude.
Why would bicarb level the playing field if everyone is taking it? Unless the theory is africans were taking it for a long time and only now we westerners are? His theory on shoes makes a little more sense in that he suspects it's replacing something westerners specifically were missing.
I'd add in that more and more Africans (Kenyans specifically) are finally getting popped for doping. So now they're cutting back on it or at least trying to manipulate how to microdose and therefore aren't getting the full benefits of a decade of unfiltered injections without oversight. So that's quite likely another factor involved.
Hopefully more Americans and Brits start getting tested/popped to even the playing field
I thought the same thing - if super shoes make such a difference - African runners won't have access to them until later in life when they achieve top times, even then I imagine they don't get the same support western runners get in terms of new shoes, etc.
Haven't heard the podcast, so not sure if Rojo was able to articulate what he and I chatted about accurately.
My basic premise is that the gap has closed between the top talents and the others. The top times arent really improving, but the number of people getting close to the top times each year is increasing significantly.
1. Shoes have helped with ankle/Achilles stiffness (stored energy) for those who didnt have this already.
2. Bi-Carb is helping those who didnt already have high buffering abilities
3. Altitude use is far more wide spread, so its more of a level playing field for rbc.
4. Training methods are finally back to high volume/threshold. For the longest time, western coaches got in the way of this development with too much focus on interval training. But the Norwegian method has made it possible for coaches to still feel like they're being useful while prescribing long tedious training.
Haven't heard the podcast, so not sure if Rojo was able to articulate what he and I chatted about accurately.
My basic premise is that the gap has closed between the top talents and the others. The top times arent really improving, but the number of people getting close to the top times each year is increasing significantly.
1. Shoes have helped with ankle/Achilles stiffness (stored energy) for those who didnt have this already.
2. Bi-Carb is helping those who didnt already have high buffering abilities
3. Altitude use is far more wide spread, so its more of a level playing field for rbc.
4. Training methods are finally back to high volume/threshold. For the longest time, western coaches got in the way of this development with too much focus on interval training. But the Norwegian method has made it possible for coaches to still feel like they're being useful while prescribing long tedious training.
On the podcast this week, Rojo teased that Nick Willis had the perfect explanation for why non-African runners are suddenly competitive the last 5 years, but is keeping it behind the paywall. The poor masses want to know!!!!
My theory is that super shoes just do what your Achilles tendon and plantar fascia are supposed to do already, in terms of mechanical force return, but this trait is underdeveloped in many Western runners, who run wearing overly cushioned shoes.
1) yes shoes were one reason. Nick said he personally went to school without shoes. How many Western kids do that? So essentially he was a New Zealand Kenyan in that since and it helped me. Stronger tendons.
2) Altitude- used to be only the top Africans trained at altitude. Now all top runners train at altitude for parts of the year. When I was in Flagstaff in 2000-2004 I was one of like 3 runners not on the NAU team. Bob Kennedy didn't think he needed to train at altitude or wasn't a responder.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
So add those up and everyone is closer to the same level.
My question now is why has the marathon not seen the convergence as much?
4) Better testing- at least according to the reigning 10k world champion.
Haven't heard the podcast, so not sure if Rojo was able to articulate what he and I chatted about accurately.
My basic premise is that the gap has closed between the top talents and the others. The top times arent really improving, but the number of people getting close to the top times each year is increasing significantly.
1. Shoes have helped with ankle/Achilles stiffness (stored energy) for those who didnt have this already.
2. Bi-Carb is helping those who didnt already have high buffering abilities
3. Altitude use is far more wide spread, so its more of a level playing field for rbc.
4. Training methods are finally back to high volume/threshold. For the longest time, western coaches got in the way of this development with too much focus on interval training. But the Norwegian method has made it possible for coaches to still feel like they're being useful while prescribing long tedious training.
The last point I think is spot on too. The amount of top high school runners running high milage has exploded - I think it is the general snowball of higher level sport focus and development in all sports - football, basketball, etc - A generation of parents who played now are guiding their kids.
What about the motivation factor? I get the impression that for E. Africans, there are few viable career pathways that pay well. But in America elite running can be just a nice hobby to hold down until success is elusive
I would think bi carb and super shoes are the bigger factors nowadays. Yes, we know altitude is beneficial of course, but take case of Yared Nuguse. Five years ago he was the NCAA record holder for 1500m, but now is 15th on the all time list. To me that seems more the doings of bi card and super shoes, rather than altitude.
Why would bicarb level the playing field if everyone is taking it? Unless the theory is africans were taking it for a long time and only now we westerners are? His theory on shoes makes a little more sense in that he suspects it's replacing something westerners specifically were missing.
it levels the playing field if some athletes naturally manage lactic buildup better. now everyone does!
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
On the podcast this week, Rojo teased that Nick Willis had the perfect explanation for why non-African runners are suddenly competitive the last 5 years, but is keeping it behind the paywall. The poor masses want to know!!!!
My theory is that super shoes just do what your Achilles tendon and plantar fascia are supposed to do already, in terms of mechanical force return, but this trait is underdeveloped in many Western runners, who run wearing overly cushioned shoes.
1) yes shoes were one reason. Nick said he personally went to school without shoes. How many Western kids do that? So essentially he was a New Zealand Kenyan in that since and it helped me. Stronger tendons.
2) Altitude- used to be only the top Africans trained at altitude. Now all top runners train at altitude for parts of the year. When I was in Flagstaff in 2000-2004 I was one of like 3 runners not on the NAU team. Bob Kennedy didn't think he needed to train at altitude or wasn't a responder.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
So add those up and everyone is closer to the same level.
My question now is why has the marathon not seen the convergence as much?
Re why the marathon hasn’t seen the convergence — Americans don’t do the volume the East Africans do. Almost everyone is track-focused in the US. Mantz, Maier, and Hicks are shining examples of what’s possible committing to the roads early. Now imagine if Blanks and Young had done the same.
1) yes shoes were one reason. Nick said he personally went to school without shoes. How many Western kids do that? So essentially he was a New Zealand Kenyan in that since and it helped me. Stronger tendons.
2) Altitude- used to be only the top Africans trained at altitude. Now all top runners train at altitude for parts of the year. When I was in Flagstaff in 2000-2004 I was one of like 3 runners not on the NAU team. Bob Kennedy didn't think he needed to train at altitude or wasn't a responder.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
So add those up and everyone is closer to the same level.
My question now is why has the marathon not seen the convergence as much?
Re why the marathon hasn’t seen the convergence — Americans don’t do the volume the East Africans do. Almost everyone is track-focused in the US. Mantz, Maier, and Hicks are shining examples of what’s possible committing to the roads early. Now imagine if Blanks and Young had done the same.
The answer of course is much more complicated than you are making it. Also remember that Blanks and Young are still younger than Mantz was when he turned to the marathon.
No athletes with ancestry outside Africa, and who were not doping, have had success in the marathon in a long time. So, my prediction is that the first time someone does it, there will be a flood of others, just as has happened at 1500/5000 since Centro and Simpson started medaling for the U.S., and especially since Jakob won Olympic gold in the 1500 in 2021.
For a very long time Kenya wasn’t testing road athletes at all. This testing still lags significantly compared to track. Kenya under performs at track championships for some time now. This is likely because of the increased testing for championships and aversion by those in power to having anyone pop on the track.
When the Olympic marathon rolls around suddenly they are more human. Funny how that works.
For a very long time Kenya wasn’t testing road athletes at all. This testing still lags significantly compared to track. Kenya under performs at track championships for some time now. This is likely because of the increased testing for championships and aversion by those in power to having anyone pop on the track.
When the Olympic marathon rolls around suddenly they are more human. Funny how that works.
Yes you"re right. Everyone should note this pattern of reality. Though they've still had a problem popping the very top women at who are still showing up to the Olympics with the effects of the juice.
Yes, kenyans back off the juice for world's and Olympics more so than ever. Getting caught there is not worth it. Their prerogative is financial and an Olympic gold for a Kenyan is less relevant to money than a diamond league win or series of podiums/wins on the DL circuit or world marathon major.
Many top African athletes way off their game at the Olympics for a reason.
This post was edited 41 seconds after it was posted.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
Wait, are you saying that East Africans have naturally have higher blood pH than Europeans and West Africans? Your verbiage here implies that bicarb benefits some athletes more than others. What evidence are you basing this on?
I'd add in that more and more Africans (Kenyans specifically) are finally getting popped for doping. So now they're cutting back on it or at least trying to manipulate how to microdose and therefore aren't getting the full benefits of a decade of unfiltered injections without oversight. So that's quite likely another factor involved.
More like almost four decades of unfiltered, unfettered drug use for the Africans. There’s still a ways to go as you can bet certain people are working hard behind the scenes to make sure the Africans can once again dope freely in every competition.
On the podcast this week, Rojo teased that Nick Willis had the perfect explanation for why non-African runners are suddenly competitive the last 5 years, but is keeping it behind the paywall. The poor masses want to know!!!!
My theory is that super shoes just do what your Achilles tendon and plantar fascia are supposed to do already, in terms of mechanical force return, but this trait is underdeveloped in many Western runners, who run wearing overly cushioned shoes.
1) yes shoes were one reason. Nick said he personally went to school without shoes. How many Western kids do that? So essentially he was a New Zealand Kenyan in that since and it helped me. Stronger tendons.
2) Altitude- used to be only the top Africans trained at altitude. Now all top runners train at altitude for parts of the year. When I was in Flagstaff in 2000-2004 I was one of like 3 runners not on the NAU team. Bob Kennedy didn't think he needed to train at altitude or wasn't a responder.
3) Bicarb- helps everyone get to close the same level.
So add those up and everyone is closer to the same level.
My question now is why has the marathon not seen the convergence as much?
Need as many new members as possible. I heard JG will be a free agent in 2027 and he will deservedly get a huge contract extension!! LOL. But all joking aside he does an incredible job!!
I thought the same thing - if super shoes make such a difference - African runners won't have access to them until later in life when they achieve top times, even then I imagine they don't get the same support western runners get in terms of new shoes, etc.
Nope. They basically get the shoes for free via “donations” and “outreach” programs etc while in fact the Westerners will have to buy them on their own if they have the money. But many ignore this.
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