PS. We changed the title of the thread to reflect the new news. The original title was: "Festus Lagat has filed emergency appeal to CAS; Paul Greene: "ADAK is on a campaign to ruin the lives of many athletes."
I agree with this and I wonder if it’d do more good than harm to have it be announced if an athlete is on 2 strikes. Yeah I’m sure some athletes wouldn’t like it but this would get them to care and also be proactive, as it’s clear many athletes aren’t getting the message.
This is something that always piques my interest when pros mention it. I remember years ago when someone (I think it was Christian Coleman but can't remember for sure) got popped for whereabouts failure a few pros came out and said they literally never get them. Again going off hazy memory but I think Emma Coburn was one who said it should be your responsibility to keep clean whereabouts record. Then there was a Nick Symmonds video on his youtube where he mentioned that he had two whereabouts failures and then had to lock in and take it seriously to avoid the suspension. Nick explained it as having to do with travel and the crazy schedule he leads. Again, it doesn't really shed much light on to whether someone is truly clean or not but, from my perspective, if it was my job to be a pro runner I would try to do everything in my power to keep a clean whereabouts record. Evidently not everyone feels the same...
I believe it was Jenny Simpson who said you're either cheating or a complete moron if you miss tests.
I believe it was Jenny Simpson who said you're either cheating or a complete moron if you miss tests.
Yes. And Craig Engels, among many others, has apparently never missed a test in his career. 3 within 12 months, well...
Also, it used to be 3 missed tests within 18 months that would lead to a ban, but the athletes successfully lobbied for that to change to 12 months so they can miss more tests during their careers.
I believe it was Jenny Simpson who said you're either cheating or a complete moron if you miss tests.
No offence to the smart elite runners who exist out there, but being an elite athlete and being a complete moron are far from mutually exclusive categories.
The part about them saying every athlete is walking around with 1-2 whereabouts failures is funny to me. I know they're implying that all the regional agencies are awful at coordination and it's not the athletes fault in most cases, but it just feels weird that something that literally ends your career is so nonchalantly cared about until you get to 2 strikes. Like you wouldn't challenge those other strikes earlier if you are innocent, or raise a bigger stink about them if your agency is not responding or refuses to cooperate?
I agree with this and I wonder if it’d do more good than harm to have it be announced if an athlete is on 2 strikes. Yeah I’m sure some athletes wouldn’t like it but this would get them to care and also be proactive, as it’s clear many athletes aren’t getting the message.
I do agree, but also, I think we'd be surprised how many athletes are walking around on a strike. I remember Kate Grace saying she got a strike because of a house move. I'm not pre-judging the current Lagat case, and if you're on two then I guess you're an idiot if you're not hyper-vigilant but it's not a case of everyone who has a strike is suspicious.
Paul Greene, the lawyer who declared the burrito argument was a "slam dunk" and that the AIU was out for a witch hunt against Houlihan. Only for Houlihan to say a year later that she and her team knew the burrito argument was a long shot. So much of what he claimed was disproven or white lies when the final CAS decision came out in that case.
Yes, exactly my point. Actually I find his behavior in the Asinga case even worse.
Even after the coach and two other teammates got suspended for GW1516, that lawyer still went after Gatorade's $$$$, thereby predictably throwing Asinga under the bus. He should have told him to come clean (1 year reduction) and reveal who orchestrated the team's doping (another 1-2 years off), but that would have reduced his paydays....
I do agree, but also, I think we'd be surprised how many athletes are walking around on a strike. I remember Kate Grace saying she got a strike because of a house move. I'm not pre-judging the current Lagat case, and if you're on two then I guess you're an idiot if you're not hyper-vigilant but it's not a case of everyone who has a strike is suspicious.
I disagree. You might be surprised how many athletes are doping. Ed Moses said, 80% in the late '80s. Getting one strike is suspicious in my opinion (but ok it can happen), getting a second strike is highly suspicious, getting a third strike—i.e. preferring a 2-year ban over getting tested—is strong evidence of doping.
Have a look at rule 1 of the WADA code. WADA explicitly calls a ban for three whereabouts failures a ban for doping. They know best.
PS. We changed the title of the thread to reflect the new news. The original title was: "Festus Lagat has filed emergency appeal to CAS; Paul Greene: "ADAK is on a campaign to ruin the lives of many athletes."
PPS. in my mind, he should be allowed to compete at World Indoors.
Strange. They canceled a provisional suspension based on three whereabouts failures? Those have a long history resulting in a provisional suspension (see Katir, Kipsang, Coleman, Kerley...). The reasoning will be interesting.
We have an update on the case. Lagat's appeal was successful. Read about it here:
PS. We changed the title of the thread to reflect the new news. The original title was: "Festus Lagat has filed emergency appeal to CAS; Paul Greene: "ADAK is on a campaign to ruin the lives of many athletes."
Strange. They canceled a provisional suspension based on three whereabouts failures? Those have a long history resulting in a provisional suspension (see Katir, Kipsang, Coleman, Kerley...). The reasoning will be interesting.
I'm confused by this one. If they didn't rule on the merits than why did they lift the provisional suspension? It'd make a lot more sense to me if they said ADAK failed to provide enough proof/explanation of the three failures. It should be standard procedure for a DCO to explain all of the failures, just like they'd provide details of a testing result.
If they're saying ADAK can't provisionally suspend athletes at all that's bizarre. Anyhow, I don't think Lagat is fit enough to make the final.
His lawyer Paul Greene didn't hold back, "It seems ADAK is on a campaign to ruin the lives of many athletes including Festus to try and show WADA it is tough on doping and avoid non-compliance but in the process they are the ones failing to follow the rules. Festus is innocent and we will fight for him to make sure he is exonerated...This is just scorched-earth, torching people trying to show that they're tough so that WADA doesn’t find them non-compliant."
Ridiculous. That's like giving a speeding ticket for 5 over when u were driving 5 under
How does an athlete of this caliber even allow themselves to get into this situation? Not filing on time seems crazy. At what point does his agent hold his hand and sit by him while he does it?
How do you know he didn't file on time?
Jon Gault wrote:
The AIU deadline for filing is June 15. Greene said Lagat filed on June 14.
ya, these jonny come lately do gooder kenyans, need to be watched like a hawk. they need an observer / ombudsman from outside to over see the spanish inquisition, and sure there are many witches to hang still, but don't burn innocents at the stake.
I'm confused by this one. If they didn't rule on the merits than why did they lift the provisional suspension? It'd make a lot more sense to me if they said ADAK failed to provide enough proof/explanation of the three failures. It should be standard procedure for a DCO to explain all of the failures, just like they'd provide details of a testing result.
If they're saying ADAK can't provisionally suspend athletes at all that's bizarre. Anyhow, I don't think Lagat is fit enough to make the final.
Agreed. But the wording isn't clear to me:
1) "Lagat’s lawyer Paul Greene said the appeal to CAS did not rule on the merits of the case but rather whether the Anti-Doping Agency of Kenya (ADAK) could impose a provisional suspension" ...in principle for any international-level athlete OR
2) "Lagat’s lawyer Paul Greene said the appeal to CAS did not rule on the merits of the case but rather whether the Anti-Doping Agency of Kenya (ADAK) could impose a provisional suspension" ....in this specific case without providing a more detailed justification.
If it is 1), yes that would be very bizarre. ETH-NADO had no problem provisionally suspending Welteji, for example.
If it is 2), that would also be bizarre. In that case, why didn't they add the missing info and provisionally suspended Lagat?
Of course the above assumes that neither Greene nor Gault misunderstood or misspoke.