Super spikes are worth 5 secs per mile

Road super shoes are probably worth 5-6 seconds for top runners in the marathon, based on the world record progression (including records set well after the EPO era). But road racing shoes have changed dramatically - almost double the stack height, less weight, and way more cushioning and bounce, all of which compounds over 26.2 miles.

Distance track spikes haven't changed nearly as much by comparison. Only slightly more stack height due to new limits, a correspondingly small increase in cushioning and rebound, stiffening plates are nothing new, and they've actually gained weight. Plus you're not going to see as much benefit from more cushioning when it's only a mile race on an already soft track or an even bouncier indoor track. And that's why times for top runners have dropped only about 3 seconds, not the 5 seconds you claim. And the EPO-era WR still stands, despite all the micro-dosing and other shenanigans that goes on these days.

I personally feel it's four seconds per mile. But I don't know if people are NOT recognizing the advantage as much as saying that there are more than just the shoes that have changed over the last decade plus. Yes they shoes make you faster, but don't the other things count for something?

Immediately after you had athletes getting an extra year of eligibility due to Covid, so you had a ton of 24 year olds (people aren't peaked when they're 18 or 19 years old). The fastest people were hanging around an extra year in college. This year is the first year without all those covid kids, and low and behold the qualifying times for NCAAs won't be as fast as the last couple years. Not to mention the increase in the amount of 300m indoor tracks and the increase in team travel budgets so more people go to the biggest meets. Additionally it seemed 15+ years ago no one really cared about indoors, quite a few schools didn't even sponsor it. Top distance runners would take a break after cross country and not hit any fast race attempts indoors and just get ready for outdoors. So many factors.

So it's the only thing. No other factors - just super, super spikes?

The NCAA record was not 3:57 in 1997. Kevin Sullivan ran 3:55.3 in 1995 and Bernard Lagat ran 3:55.6 to take the NCAA titles back in the 90s. I watched the 99 race in person. That's just looking at the NCAA champ results.

I'm pretty sure Fernandez's 3:55 indoor mile in 2009 was a U19 American record.

5-seconds!!!! WOW!!! No wonder there's so many 3:42 miler's now days. Considering the world record was 3:47 back in 1981, 3:42 guys should be everywhere by now with our shoes!

Oh wait...

Yea pretty much. Theyre not called super spikes for nothing. I dont see anything else that has been invented recently that could affect every step an athlete takes as much as these spikes.

unless all the athletes are on EPO of course, but thats been around for decades.

Compare the amount of 4:02.00 and faster then to 4:00.00 and faster now. I’d guess it’s similar

Well "super" spikes is just a name that guys like you gave to them and it's actually born out of the foam used in them being super critically formed (so just a manufacturing process), but yeah - that sound a little underwhelming right?

Nothing else invented recently? Well that's a little short sighted isn't it? Bicarb has been around for a long time so technically not invented recently, but the effectiveness of it's use has only been around 2-3 years.

You could say the same about the internet. Been around multiple decades now but only recently have athletes chosen to share workouts, training philosophies etc etc in the same volume as they do now and this goes from the worlds very best (Jakob, Nuguse, Kerr, Hocker etc), right through recent college stars (Strand, Wolfe etc) down to now even high school stars (Lutkenhaus, Ruthe etc)

But yeah guess none of that has had any impact. It's just the spikes with the 10mm of foam blown up in a pressurized chamber that has done it all. Thanks for your measured and intelligent input.

Yup exactly right. 10mm? Dang, I didnt even know it was that much foam!! Nearly half an inch! How many steps do you take per mile? The energy return must be insane. Youre literally ontop of half an inch more of cushion.

These spikes were literally engineered to be made to run as fast as possible, what did you expect? Markably different from its predecessors too.

Bicarb is baking soda. Its been around for hundreds of years. Nothing new there.

People have been sharing workouts for decades, centuries. What on Earth are you talking about? Training philosophies are no different since the 60s, they were doing the same exact workouts!!

Give Hocker or Nuguse a pair of waffle spikes, lets see what he runs in a mile. I bet you he doesnt crack under 3:50. Maybe Jakob does but barely.

Pressurized chamber? My god, they really went to the factories on this one. That carbon plate is packed with fibers, specifically engineered for maximal performance. No wonder theyre so expensive!

I think 5 seconds is reasonable. Before i thought 3-4seconds, but nah 5 is about right now. Maybe more lmfao

Of course it's debatable, you merely refuse to debate rationally

Its like driving a 2025 tesla vs a 1999 camry

This is the desperate post of a man (young boy at a guess) that has started to realize they are hopelessly outmatched on the topic at which they are feigning to be an expert on.

Because out of you and I, one of us will know more about this than the other. This would be true for any topic you want to pick. But in this case you've come to the gun fight with a plastic knife, young fella.

Better luck next time.

They can’t possibly be worth 5 seconds, that’s impossible. Sydney Maree ran 3:29.77 with splits of 54 and 1:50 for the first two laps over 40 years ago. You think he’s running 3:24-3:25 today? That laughable.

You can tell idiots because their reasoning is so basic.

next thing you will be saying is athletes die so don’t become an athlete discus.

race shoes = no

training shoes so you can stack workout without being broken but a change of training methodology = yes

So El G would be running 3:21 for the 1500 and 3:38 for the mile? Not a chance.

A track shoe is an exercise in economy. The less a runner has to carry the better. The shoe is made of 3 basic elements: the upper, which essentially contains the foot, the sole, which supports the foot and spikes, which enable traction. Shoes have been based on this model for decades. So which part of this surprisingly simple architecture has suddenly enabled athletes to run 5 seconds faster over a mile - and how?

5 seconds per mile? That would put Rupp at 3:45 and El Guerouj at 3:21 and 3:38. Bekele would run 12:22 and 25:47.

There’s been a crazy increase in depth but it’s not from the shoes. The WRs for the 800m, 1500m and mile have remained unchanged.

I doubt that you have ever set foot on a track.