Shoutout to Liam Murphy and Paul Chelimo

colorunner123 wrote:

BasicallyNobody wrote:

What the heck are you on. Murphy is the NCAA record holder over 1500. Yeah he’s damn good at the 5k, but saying he should automatically ditch it and go up without trying a season or two at the 15 is stupid.

thank you for validating the need for this post. People still think of Liam as a 1500 star where he has never accomplished anything of note except that weak CR. He didn't even make the NCAA finals this year. He had the #10 time in the US this year and the #35 time in the US last year. He has never broken 3:33.

And, sorry, in the super-shoe era 3:33 just isn't that good:

1) Ethan Strand and Gary Martin have both run 3:48, which is much faster than a 3:33. Strand probably was capable of running sub-3:30 earlier this year.

2) Colin Sahlman will likely run 3:30 or faster in spring/summer 2026. The 3:33 record will be forgotten very soon.

Naming ~8 American runners who are definitively better than Liam in the 1500 is easy: Cole Hocker, Yared Nuguse, Ethan Strand, Jonah Koech, Josh Hoey, Hobbs Kessler, Gary Martin, Vincent Ciattei, Nathan Green. Soon we will add Colin Sahlman to that list and maybe in a year or two Cooper Lutkenhaus.

In the 5000, by strong contrast, that list is a lot shorter: Cole Hocker, Grant Fisher, Nico Young, Graham Blanks. I know what you are thinking. You are thinking: "Cooper Teare is a 12:54 guy. Of course he's better than Liam Murphy in the 5000." Well I'm not so sure. Liam destroyed Cooper yesterday. He did it on a tough course in crappy conditions over 10K. If they ran 5K on the track today, Liam would win. It will be interesting to see what happens in six months. I'm putting my money on Liam.

You may also be thinking, "Yesterday was a fluke. Of course Liam isn't a 10K guy!" But yesterday's finish is a mirror image of Liam's stunning top-10 finish in the NCAA cross country in 2024. He is better over 10K cross country than at the 1500. He has not yet mastered the 5K on the track yet, but when he does it is going to be his sweet spot. If not for that weak 1500 CR, all of us would realize it.

colorunner123 wrote:

BasicallyNobody wrote:

What the heck are you on. Murphy is the NCAA record holder over 1500. Yeah he’s damn good at the 5k, but saying he should automatically ditch it and go up without trying a season or two at the 15 is stupid.

thank you for validating the need for this post. People still think of Liam as a 1500 star where he has never accomplished anything of note except that weak CR. He didn't even make the NCAA finals this year. He had the #10 time in the US this year and the #35 time in the US last year. He has never broken 3:33.

And, sorry, in the super-shoe era 3:33 just isn't that good:

1) Ethan Strand and Gary Martin have both run 3:48, which is much faster than a 3:33. Strand probably was capable of running sub-3:30 earlier this year.

2) Colin Sahlman will likely run 3:30 or faster in spring/summer 2026. The 3:33 record will be forgotten very soon.

Naming ~8 American runners who are definitively better than Liam in the 1500 is easy: Cole Hocker, Yared Nuguse, Ethan Strand, Jonah Koech, Josh Hoey, Hobbs Kessler, Gary Martin, Vincent Ciattei, Nathan Green. Soon we will add Colin Sahlman to that list and maybe in a year or two Cooper Lutkenhaus.

In the 5000, by strong contrast, that list is a lot shorter: Cole Hocker, Grant Fisher, Nico Young, Graham Blanks. I know what you are thinking. You are thinking: "Cooper Teare is a 12:54 guy. Of course he's better than Liam Murphy in the 5000." Well I'm not so sure. Liam destroyed Cooper yesterday. He did it on a tough course in crappy conditions over 10K. If they ran 5K on the track today, Liam would win. It will be interesting to see what happens in six months. I'm putting my money on Liam.

You may also be thinking, "Yesterday was a fluke. Of course Liam isn't a 10K guy!" But yesterday's finish is a mirror image of Liam's stunning top-10 finish in the NCAA cross country in 2024. He is better over 10K cross country than at the 1500. He has not yet mastered the 5K on the track yet, but when he does it is going to be his sweet spot. If not for that weak 1500 CR, all of us would realize it.

Sloedirt wrote:

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s a lock for a 5K team. I think the point is it’s a comparatively better championship decision for him than the 1500 since he struggles making finals in the 15, even at the NCAA level. This isn’t a hot take at all, he has the Teare profile- good mile time trailer, either can’t figure out the tactics/doesn’t have the top end speed for it. Similar to Teare too, while his speed isn’t sensational for a pure miler, it’s pretty damn competitive in the 5

his actual 5K prowess is kind of unproven, but he was a very good college 3K guy (7:35, 4th at NCAA twice I believe), and top 10 in 10K cross twice now too. Considering his 3:33 and pretty awesome kick (when he’s “on”), I think it’s a better bet that he could be a threat in a tactical 5K than a 1500 against 3:28 and/or 1:44 guys.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

colorunner123 wrote:

thank you for validating the need for this post. People still think of Liam as a 1500 star where he has never accomplished anything of note except that weak CR. He didn't even make the NCAA finals this year. He had the #10 time in the US this year and the #35 time in the US last year. He has never broken 3:33.

And, sorry, in the super-shoe era 3:33 just isn't that good:

1) Ethan Strand and Gary Martin have both run 3:48, which is much faster than a 3:33. Strand probably was capable of running sub-3:30 earlier this year.

2) Colin Sahlman will likely run 3:30 or faster in spring/summer 2026. The 3:33 record will be forgotten very soon.

Naming ~8 American runners who are definitively better than Liam in the 1500 is easy: Cole Hocker, Yared Nuguse, Ethan Strand, Jonah Koech, Josh Hoey, Hobbs Kessler, Gary Martin, Vincent Ciattei, Nathan Green. Soon we will add Colin Sahlman to that list and maybe in a year or two Cooper Lutkenhaus.

In the 5000, by strong contrast, that list is a lot shorter: Cole Hocker, Grant Fisher, Nico Young, Graham Blanks. I know what you are thinking. You are thinking: "Cooper Teare is a 12:54 guy. Of course he's better than Liam Murphy in the 5000." Well I'm not so sure. Liam destroyed Cooper yesterday. He did it on a tough course in crappy conditions over 10K. If they ran 5K on the track today, Liam would win. It will be interesting to see what happens in six months. I'm putting my money on Liam.

You may also be thinking, "Yesterday was a fluke. Of course Liam isn't a 10K guy!" But yesterday's finish is a mirror image of Liam's stunning top-10 finish in the NCAA cross country in 2024. He is better over 10K cross country than at the 1500. He has not yet mastered the 5K on the track yet, but when he does it is going to be his sweet spot. If not for that weak 1500 CR, all of us would realize it.

Finding 8 better than Murphy at 5,000 isn’t difficult at all. There’s the 4 you mentioned, Cole Hocker, the two guys that clobbered him today (Wolfe/Hansen) and his younger Villanova teammate who’s already been more successful in the 5,000 (Langon) and pushed Habtom to the brink yesterday.