So we can't mention that IAAF anti-doping thought he was likely doping?
Well this is news to me. He never tested positive or had a whereabouts failure, otherwise we would have all heard about it. So where are you getting this information? Are you making it up?
So we can't mention that IAAF anti-doping thought he was likely doping?
Well this is news to me. He never tested positive or had a whereabouts failure, otherwise we would have all heard about it. So where are you getting this information? Are you making it up?
Could sense this coming after he failed to make the final at USAs this year.
An incredible career. Mixed it up with the Kenyans (and beat many of them) in an era when the Kenyans dominated the steeple like no other event. His Olympic silver in 2016 was the first medal by an American steepler in 32 years. 8:00.45 is still the American record 10 years on, and he would have been well under 8:00 without the fall.
I was also really impressed by his comeback in 2022. The second half of Jager's career was derailed by injuries, and he missed basically all of the 2019 and 2021 seasons but came back at age 32 to make the team and finish 6th at Worlds.
And one of the nicest guys around. Always had time for an interview and very thoughtful.
It's one of the most heartbreaking falls in track running history.
You have higher profile ones in El G 1996 and Mary Decker in '84 etc because of the stakes (potential Olympic golds), but the 8.00 barrier is still very much a threshold of excellence in the event that has existed for decades and still exists today. To this day, no athlete outside of Ethiopia, Morocco or Kenya has broken 8min and you look at even a guy like Beamish with his talent and ability - his PR is 8.09.6. He was exactly 10m ahead of Birech that day coming into the straight and finished about 10m behind him after the fall. Birech did lift markedly in the final 50 after he saw the fall but Jager was going to win that race by at least 5 meters no matter what. 5 meters up on the 7.58.41 winning time implies a time in the 7.57.5, 7.57.6 range and slots him about 12th on the all-time list.
The crazy thing is about the fall is that he clears the steeple with his front leg by about a foot and almost imperceptibly grazes the steeple with his trail - it's literally a matter of 1/4-1/2 an inch.
Just shows how fine the margins are and also career window-wise. After this race it would have seemed incomprehensible he wouldn't break 8 but despite two more big attempts in Monaco in 2017 and 2018 (both 8.01's) it wasn't to be.
Easily the most talented American steeplechaser ever with a sub 3.33 1500m and a 13.02 5000m. He had a great career as you said.
I don’t really think that just barely missing under 8 flat is as big of a deal as some make it. He only missed it by .46 seconds, is an Olympic and WC medalist, ran close to 8 flat on two other occasions, and is the AR holder.
What I’m curious about is where does he place on the list of greatest American distance runners of all time? I’d have to think about it some more, but my instinct is put him just inside the top 10, around 9th or 10th. I certainly wouldn’t put him on the Mt Rushmore, maybe even as low as around 15th. What do you guys think?
What a great career. Obviously super talented in high school, but who could have predicted he would eventually become the 13th fasted (at the time) steeplechaser ever?
Well this is news to me. He never tested positive or had a whereabouts failure, otherwise we would have all heard about it. So where are you getting this information? Are you making it up?
I'm sorry you started following track yesterday.
I just looked into the Fancy Bears Hack of 2016. Looks like Jager was flagged on his biological passport by IAAF, but no charges against Jager were ever made by WADA or any anti doping agency. A single instance of a suspicious sample is never enough to charge an athlete with doping. There are too many non banned supplements and even food that can contain trace amounts of something that could lead to a false positive. It seems like you are accusing Jager of doping with little to no evidence. He would have been banned if any testing agency even remotely suspected him of doping.
I just looked into the Fancy Bears Hack of 2016. Looks like Jager was flagged on his biological passport by IAAF, but no charges against Jager were ever made by WADA or any anti doping agency. A single instance of a suspicious sample is never enough to charge an athlete with doping. There are too many non banned supplements and even food that can contain trace amounts of something that could lead to a false positive. It seems like you are accusing Jager of doping with little to no evidence. He would have been banned if any testing agency even remotely suspected him of doping.
I just looked into the Fancy Bears Hack of 2016. Looks like Jager was flagged on his biological passport by IAAF, but no charges against Jager were ever made by WADA or any anti doping agency. A single instance of a suspicious sample is never enough to charge an athlete with doping. There are too many non banned supplements and even food that can contain trace amounts of something that could lead to a false positive. It seems like you are accusing Jager of doping with little to no evidence. He would have been banned if any testing agency even remotely suspected him of doping.
But of course if Evan was black, and African in particular, he would not be given the benefit of the doubt.
I just looked into the Fancy Bears Hack of 2016. Looks like Jager was flagged on his biological passport by IAAF, but no charges against Jager were ever made by WADA or any anti doping agency. A single instance of a suspicious sample is never enough to charge an athlete with doping. There are too many non banned supplements and even food that can contain trace amounts of something that could lead to a false positive. It seems like you are accusing Jager of doping with little to no evidence. He would have been banned if any testing agency even remotely suspected him of doping.
But of course if Evan was black, and African in particular, he would not be given the benefit of the doubt.
If he was black, Chinese, Indian, Latino, or Māori I would still give him the benefit of the doubt. Now if you are accusing the agencies of being racially biased, maybe they are, I don’t know. They did ban Houlihan who is white. But as of right now, I tend to believe false positives on doping tests can happen to anybody.
It's one of the most heartbreaking falls in track running history.
You have higher profile ones in El G 1996 and Mary Decker in '84 etc because of the stakes (potential Olympic golds), but the 8.00 barrier is still very much a threshold of excellence in the event that has existed for decades and still exists today. To this day, no athlete outside of Ethiopia, Morocco or Kenya has broken 8min and you look at even a guy like Beamish with his talent and ability - his PR is 8.09.6. He was exactly 10m ahead of Birech that day coming into the straight and finished about 10m behind him after the fall. Birech did lift markedly in the final 50 after he saw the fall but Jager was going to win that race by at least 5 meters no matter what. 5 meters up on the 7.58.41 winning time implies a time in the 7.57.5, 7.57.6 range and slots him about 12th on the all-time list.
The crazy thing is about the fall is that he clears the steeple with his front leg by about a foot and almost imperceptibly grazes the steeple with his trail - it's literally a matter of 1/4-1/2 an inch.
Just shows how fine the margins are and also career window-wise. After this race it would have seemed incomprehensible he wouldn't break 8 but despite two more big attempts in Monaco in 2017 and 2018 (both 8.01's) it wasn't to be.
Easily the most talented American steeplechaser ever with a sub 3.33 1500m and a 13.02 5000m. He had a great career as you said.
I don’t really think that just barely missing under 8 flat is as big of a deal as some make it. He only missed it by .46 seconds, is an Olympic and WC medalist, ran close to 8 flat on two other occasions, and is the AR holder.
What I’m curious about is where does he place on the list of greatest American distance runners of all time? I’d have to think about it some more, but my instinct is put him just inside the top 10, around 9th or 10th. I certainly wouldn’t put him on the Mt Rushmore, maybe even as low as around 15th. What do you guys think?
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
I don’t really think that just barely missing under 8 flat is as big of a deal as some make it. He only missed it by .46 seconds, is an Olympic and WC medalist, ran close to 8 flat on two other occasions, and is the AR holder.
What I’m curious about is where does he place on the list of greatest American distance runners of all time? I’d have to think about it some more, but my instinct is put him just inside the top 10, around 9th or 10th. I certainly wouldn’t put him on the Mt Rushmore, maybe even as low as around 15th. What do you guys think?
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
That’s what I’m thinking. Plus he had a long career, which counts for something in a GOAT ranking. I’m thinking you are right. I’m pretty confident he’s a top ten.
Mt. Rushmore:
Cole Hocker (GOAT), then in no particular order Centro, Jim Run, Frank Shorter
5-10 in no particular order:
Grant Fisher, Evan Jager, Bill Rogers, Bernard Lagat, Salazar (I know), Galen Rupp
Honorable Mentions:
Billy Mills, Dave Wottle, Jim Spivey, Steve Scott, Bob Schul, Craig Virgin, Pre, Rick Wohlhuter, Johnny Gray, Horace Ashenfeldter
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
That’s what I’m thinking. Plus he had a long career, which counts for something in a GOAT ranking. I’m thinking you are right. I’m pretty confident he’s a top ten.
Mt. Rushmore:
Cole Hocker (GOAT), then in no particular order Centro, Jim Run, Frank Shorter
5-10 in no particular order:
Grant Fisher, Evan Jager, Bill Rogers, Bernard Lagat, Salazar (I know), Galen Rupp
Honorable Mentions:
Billy Mills, Dave Wottle, Jim Spivey, Steve Scott, Bob Schul, Craig Virgin, Pre, Rick Wohlhuter, Johnny Gray, Horace Ashenfeldter
Shame on me. Jim Ryun* I misspelled his name because of a typo.
I don’t really think that just barely missing under 8 flat is as big of a deal as some make it. He only missed it by .46 seconds, is an Olympic and WC medalist, ran close to 8 flat on two other occasions, and is the AR holder.
What I’m curious about is where does he place on the list of greatest American distance runners of all time? I’d have to think about it some more, but my instinct is put him just inside the top 10, around 9th or 10th. I certainly wouldn’t put him on the Mt Rushmore, maybe even as low as around 15th. What do you guys think?
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
Yeah Evan was clearly as good as Galen at 5000m, but he didn’t take nearly as many bites at the apple.
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
Yeah Evan was clearly as good as Galen at 5000m, but he didn’t take nearly as many bites at the apple.
I think he made the right choice to focus on the steeple honestly. His 13:02 PR in Brussels got him eight place. Not bad, but all the evidence showed that he was a guy who had trouble maintaining contact the longer the race distance was.
36 years old! Honestly shocked this announcement came as late as it did.
Big fan of Evan's. One of the first guys I remember idolizing in the sport, and always held out hope he'd make a comeback and crack 8 minutes after his heartbreaking 8:00.45 in 2015. Also hoped to see him on the roads making a serious attempt in a half or even a marathon.
Congrats on a great career
No doubt one of the greatest American careers. However, I don’t know that he would have been successful at the longer stuff. I remember hearing that the 5k was his distance racing limit and that he struggled in long runs. Not sure if that’s true or not and he was so derailed by injuries that a marathon would have been nearly impossible anyway so who knows.
He had a somewhat unique, beautiful stride, lots of bounce - gazelle-like. Probably not ideal for long road races, also may have been a bit of injury provoking - did he have Achilles or plantar fascia issues as he got older? I wonder how it would have worked out if he got to train and race in super shoes during his prime.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I just looked into the Fancy Bears Hack of 2016. Looks like Jager was flagged on his biological passport by IAAF, but no charges against Jager were ever made by WADA or any anti doping agency. A single instance of a suspicious sample is never enough to charge an athlete with doping. There are too many non banned supplements and even food that can contain trace amounts of something that could lead to a false positive. It seems like you are accusing Jager of doping with little to no evidence. He would have been banned if any testing agency even remotely suspected him of doping.
But of course if Evan was black, and African in particular, he would not be given the benefit of the doubt.
Could sense this coming after he failed to make the final at USAs this year.
An incredible career. Mixed it up with the Kenyans (and beat many of them) in an era when the Kenyans dominated the steeple like no other event. His Olympic silver in 2016 was the first medal by an American steepler in 32 years. 8:00.45 is still the American record 10 years on, and he would have been well under 8:00 without the fall.
I was also really impressed by his comeback in 2022. The second half of Jager's career was derailed by injuries, and he missed basically all of the 2019 and 2021 seasons but came back at age 32 to make the team and finish 6th at Worlds.
And one of the nicest guys around. Always had time for an interview and very thoughtful.
I don’t really think that just barely missing under 8 flat is as big of a deal as some make it. He only missed it by .46 seconds, is an Olympic and WC medalist, ran close to 8 flat on two other occasions, and is the AR holder.
What I’m curious about is where does he place on the list of greatest American distance runners of all time? I’d have to think about it some more, but my instinct is put him just inside the top 10, around 9th or 10th. I certainly wouldn’t put him on the Mt Rushmore, maybe even as low as around 15th. What do you guys think?
That's okay we can agree to disagree on that. I think for a steeplechaser it is a big deal. Only 13 men have ever done it and when the great Moses Kiptanui did it for the first time it was definitely a big deal and is one of the only numerical "barriers" left that holds some significance when it happens (a 10 second 100m, 4min mile etc don't anymore but a sub 8 SC does). So it a cool club to be part of and a sh-tty one to miss being part of given how that went down.
I mean, Olympic silver medalist, American record holder, and clearly capable of sub-3:50 mile, sub-8:00 steeple, and sub-13:00 5000 in his prime, especially if you gave him today’s shoes. He’s very high up on the list.
That’s what I’m thinking. Plus he had a long career, which counts for something in a GOAT ranking. I’m thinking you are right. I’m pretty confident he’s a top ten.
Mt. Rushmore:
Cole Hocker (GOAT), then in no particular order Centro, Jim Run, Frank Shorter
5-10 in no particular order:
Grant Fisher, Evan Jager, Bill Rogers, Bernard Lagat, Salazar (I know), Galen Rupp
Honorable Mentions:
Billy Mills, Dave Wottle, Jim Spivey, Steve Scott, Bob Schul, Craig Virgin, Pre, Rick Wohlhuter, Johnny Gray, Horace Ashenfeldter