It is a logical fallacy to assume that just because an elite runner runs fast times, he is maximizing his potential or training 100% optimally. Pointing out that an anonymous LRC poster is slower than Hillary Bor does not prove your point either. All that being said, truth hurts is incorrect that 8-10 minute pace is a waste of time for Hillary Bor.
"You can never run too slowly. But you can run too fast." Arthur Lydiard
he also talked about long steady distance and not long slow distance. There is the quote where he says slow distance is fine for joggers but doesn’t develop the heart the way an runner needs. -And the quote about finishing tired
Now those quotes don’t exactly contradict each other. Too slow might be better than too fast but slow can be better than too slow.
It's not that his easy runs are too slow, it's that his workout are too fast. You can still overtrain even if you take your easy days easy.
Agreed with poster above that 2:10 was an underperformance in NYC.
Difference between fitness and execution. Fitness was there, but he ran a tough course too aggressively and paid for that. Look at his head-to-head vs Mantz to see that fitness isn’t the problem. He also beat Dever by 24 seconds at the NYC Half.
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Most people run their easy runs too fast. It is the hobby jogger way, chasing that average run pace number that is prominently displayed on Strava.
Many hobbyjoggers do, but I suspect many also run too slow. Running incredibly slow easy runs has been en vogue for a while and now the pendulum has swung too far.
"You can never run too slowly. But you can run too fast." Arthur Lydiard
he also talked about long steady distance and not long slow distance. There is the quote where he says slow distance is fine for joggers but doesn’t develop the heart the way an runner needs. -And the quote about finishing tired
Now those quotes don’t exactly contradict each other. Too slow might be better than too fast but slow can be better than too slow.
Arthur would tell you that you can get as fit with slow training as with faster training but it would take longer "So what the LSD runner can do in two years maybe we can do in one." You're right, there is no contradiction, slower could never be too slow, just less efficient but fast could be too fast and damaging.
Am I wrong? What's the benefit of running 8-10 minute pace for him?
It's running, isn't it? Heart rate goes up a bit, muscles do a bit of work, risk of injury is reduced. He gets fitter than if he didn't run at all. He does his faster stuff. He's run 2:10. He's doing his miles at the same paces Henry Rono did and he seemed to benefit from it.
Look up WeJo's training advice. Completely consistent with running very slowly at times.
Another way to think about it is what is the benefit of running 7 minute pace or 8 minute pace for Bor?
Also any competitive runner--who is doing varied training--will have some running at very slow paces. Really slow warmups, cooldowns, rest between intervals.
2:10:47 @ NYC almost feels like underperforming compared to that 40k @ 5500 feet @ 5:08/mile. Feel like he can go a lot faster. Lots of easy stuff in peak weeks @ 9min pace. Very interesting.
on paper yes but he was the guy that made the big move and eventually paid for it, most of the guys that beat him either were already not in the lead pack when the move happened or didn't try to cover it
"You can never run too slowly. But you can run too fast." Arthur Lydiard
he also talked about long steady distance and not long slow distance. There is the quote where he says slow distance is fine for joggers but doesn’t develop the heart the way an runner needs. -And the quote about finishing tired
Now those quotes don’t exactly contradict each other. Too slow might be better than too fast but slow can be better than too slow.
You are correct. Most people thought the LSD stood for Long Slow Distance when Lydiard had to explain 'S' stands for Steady and not Slow.He told in public his elite runners mostly ran at a steady quite fast easy pace 5:30 to 6:00 mile pace.
Lelisa Desisa would do a couple runs a week close to 10 minute pace. He ran sub 2:05 pre super shoes and he had terrible upper body form. Met the guy randomly once and he looked like an average Joe he did not look like an elite runner necessarily, bigger than I expected.
I think professional runners understand more than most that they have nothing to prove by rushing the warmup. Paul Tergat and Rob DeCastella both allegedly covered the first mile of every run in around 9 minutes. To my mind, running your first mile much faster is the equivalent to wearing lifts in your shoes.
2:10:47 @ NYC almost feels like underperforming compared to that 40k @ 5500 feet @ 5:08/mile. Feel like he can go a lot faster. Lots of easy stuff in peak weeks @ 9min pace. Very interesting.
His Debut; tough NYC course; I think he was ~ fairly even with a bit of an uptick followed by some trouble around 35km. His steeple; 20km and 1/2mth indicates 2:05 potential.
Am I wrong? What's the benefit of running 8-10 minute pace for him?
He can run way more without getting injured or as fatigued.
These numbers are totally made up, but I'll use them to illustrate a point: by running 30 secs/mile slower on your easy runs, you're probably still getting 95% of the benefit you would at the faster pace, but the fatigue cost is probably 25% lower.
Therefore, from a cost/benefit analysis, if you slow down, you can run a lot more - and yield a much greater return.
Wow, Bor trained with zero intensity for the a race that requires zero intensity. LMK when you guys are discussing an event where the training isn't a boredom competition.
2:10:47 @ NYC almost feels like underperforming compared to that 40k @ 5500 feet @ 5:08/mile. Feel like he can go a lot faster. Lots of easy stuff in peak weeks @ 9min pace. Very interesting.
Reminds me to a degree of the Japanese training for the ekiden; they'd do their easy paces VERY slow but be at 120-140 mpw. Remember Hodgie-San talking about Japanese high/low training...so much volume, they'd also do triples.
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