Strong track athlete but horrible at XC

More hill work? Tempo runs on hilly terrain?

i am saying there's usually a reason "why." you're psychologically tentative on the surface. you don't have the right shoes for the surface. you're better on pacing with a coach yelling a split every 400. you change how you run a track race.

i was a mediocre soccer player on turf. my school was grass. 90% of schools were. select was all on grass. college was. i didn't have turf shoes. i couldn't get under the ball the same and chip it.

if i wanted to fix it, i go buy the correct shoes. i'd play on a turf surface some before school starts, perhaps indoor.

problem--->solution.

to me if he's throwing around cadence he's just flipping around watch health data. if i want to know how soccer is going i don't check my watch. i think about how the games went. in this case, the races.

ask a sporty parent. my dad would tell me if i was being slow or sloppy. ask a coach. ask a friend. or be honest with yourself how your races went and what their downsides were.

Worrying about being good at track and bad at XC is like a NBA player who is a solid regular season player worrying about not playing well during the preseason.

at sea level but my junior track pr's were 1:55 800 and 4:15 1600 didn't run a 3200 but probably could've run sub 9:20 on a good day if I could guess, but in xc still have never broken 16:20 in a 5k. I usually run my workouts well and on paper should def be the fastest in my state, but instead I'm pretty routinely beaten by kids I coudldn't image losing to in track. some people just aren't xc kids ig. not the best for college recruiting I will say

...but you are splitting atoms, it's like an SAT score:

track/math - 790

Xc/verbal- 780

Sure, she is marginally better on the track than at xc, but even if she never ran track, she would be an all time great in xc based on her 4 State titles, 4 national meets, and Woodward record in xc.

OP says he is horrible in xc, and good in track. He's not saying he was champ in track, but only on the podium in xc.

Sadie could well end up having a better '25-26 in xc than track.

Her teammates Napolèon, who the idiot pundits dubbed a 'steeple specialist', just finished #2 at Nuttycombe.

You're just outside of your natural range imo. 1:53 and 4:13 are vastly superior to your 3200m time. It makes sense that you would fade even more in XC.

Instead of asking "Why am I so bad at XC?", consider asking yourself "Why am I so awesome at the 800/mile?"

Problem solved.

This isn't real. If you ran a 4:02 and 8:56 and could only manage 17:30 in a legit XC race, there's something else going on. Especially because the distances you listed make this seem like high school and you said it was 20 years ago. So. No.

Also, if when you got to college and you saw that this discrepancy get more extreme, that's also less likely.

Your understanding is wrong, unless you mean the top runners in the country get the most exposure by running fast times on flat courses.

You've been doing this 30-40 times a day. What is the purpose? This has consumed you. Have the Voices taken over recently? You really need to seek professional help. You're not getting better, you've fallen off a cliff. You remind me of Erik "Raspberry Beret" Lindsey, the nutcase Oregon wannabe who spent 10 years doing the same.

I'm serious, you need help.

I would view it as 800 track / 750 xc if using that analogy. Almost unbeatable on the track. Not unbeatable on grass

If I get a chance, I may do the math here, but Engelhardt most likely lost more track races than xc races.

In hs xc she was something like 68-6 in cross country races over 4 years. Losses coming at Woodbridge, 2 x FL, 1 x CA St meet merge, and 2 x NXN. Otherwise she won everything. 4 x CA State Division, 2 x FL West, 3 x CA State Meet merge.

The question is if you rate her 750 in xc, and Hedengren 800, who fits in between?

The other stars in her class besides Hedengren were:

Blade, Garces, Edwards, Huyler, Macchia, Sachs, Barker, Barton, Hagen, Scheffler, Thomsen, Rodriquez and Rupe.

Hedengren will rate 800/800 xc/track. Who in this next group of 13 has a better xc resume than Engelhardt?

Personally, I like both Thomsen and Blade. Ironically, they are also from CA, but SE beat them both often annually in their home state.

I'd wager Engelhardt has second best freshman xc result this year at ncaa behind Hedengren, ahead of this group.

Again purely judging on xc, this will be a strong result.

Alr dude, do you actually expect us to believe this? You ran a 8:56 3200 and were averaging 17:30 in xc? Didn’t happen.

Good news is that America does not really care about XC past college.

Better to be a natural on the track.

65-70mpw in HS is crazy work. Good luck in college ig

I was very much like you. In fact, very similar times (only a long time ago).

There can be a number of reasons.

* grass and/or softer surface require more power and if you are slightly higher fast twitch, then you will lightly tire easier than a slow twitch guy

* going out too fast. XC is a fast start event. Some people are much better going out slow in longer event and running faster in the second half.

* the extra distance is a thing - especially when you factor in the other two reasons.

* you may just be training poorly. 5k is a really hard event. In some ways harder than 10k. I'd be making stuff up if I told you how to train for 5k. I never figured it out, but others have (though what works for you might not be the same). I assume you need longer intervals, less rest between them, more tempos.

* you may just be more of a 800/1600 guy who is able to stretch to 3200, but that's it. In which case, just reset your goals and work more on speed.

I was a super slow runner compared to you, so take my advice with a heavy grain of salt.

I'm wondering if you are just not good at running hills. I found that I was able to quickly improve my hill running by doing the following treadmill workout:

(1) 1 minute hard at 10% incline,

(2) 1 minute easy at 2% incline.

Repeat the above sequence ten times. The last few reps should be very hard.

According to chatgpt, versions of this workout have been recommended by Brad Hudson, Jack Daniels, and someone named Jason Fitzgerald.

I was able to cut my time in an uphill 4 mile time trial by about 2 minutes after I did this workout just twice.

I also wonder if you would benefit from strength training, like squats and deadlifts and maybe pullups and bench press. I feel like that might be more helpful for cross country than track. Anyway you are a very talented runner. Best of luck.

I always sucked at running on grass, especially if it was wet or particularly bumpy. Through college I could surprise my coach/teammates on the right course and right day and run with our top varsity runners but was always twisting ankles and getting minor lower leg injuries and eventually my coach and I realized it just wasn't worth it for me to try to match my track performance in XC. There might be things you can do to improve your ability to run on grass but I never figured it out. For me, it always felt like I couldn't get into the right rhythm whereas on a track I could get rolling and feel smooth throughout the race. XC is a team sport and a ton of fun, I wouldn't worry about the clock so much and just do your best and run with teammates (if you have a good team) and don't let it get you down if runners you normally beat on the track beat you from time to time in XC.

Learn to read bro the guy noted he ran 16:00 but averaged in the 17's. This could mean he improved through the season and ended the season faster than he started. It is also pretty normal to not be a great XC runner but a phenomenal track athlete. I knew guys in college that ran 28:00's and 29:00's for 8k but ran 1:46-3:40 on the track. We had a sub 4:00 miler on my team but the guy could barely run sub 27 on the track.