Having followed Mantz for a long time on Strava. His build up mileage peaks in the 130s.
So, if this is true, he’s running the extra 100 miles for about 30 seconds of pace.
I think he might need 50 but somewhere around there we start seeing 13:30 5k guys. With a marathon specific program those guys should be close to 2:15 especially with super shoes to save their legs.
the gains with higher mileage are still significant(10 mins) but also sort of marginal( running 2x as much)
What is the lowest mileage week that an OTQ could have as their all-time highest week? Like, it doesn't count if you did 100 mile weeks for three years and then had a six-month block of 65 mpw average leading up to an OTQ.
I would be very interested to hear from an OTQ who never broke 75 mpw at any point in their lifetime training history.
I think 25 miles would be the minimum possible. If you were to come through mile 25 at around two hours, you could probably speed walk the last 1.2 in and still squeeze under 2:16.
You hear lots about the high mileage guys marathon training but what do you guys think the lowest possible weekly mileage is while still being fit enough to run 2:16:00
And what would that week look like? Bulky tempos 2 days a week and hard 20 milers every weekend? Bike every other day?
I feel like you could run 1:02:59 (the half OTQ) on 50 or so. I knew someone who ran 13:50 off 55 or so mpw - 3 workouts a week, short long run, and laughable easy days - probably a 30 minute jog of about 4.5-5 (and a weekly off day). That said, he hated running and did as little as possible to maintain his scholarship (since he placed well at conference meets). Felt like he could have run sub 13 if he went pro
My wife did it with (I think) about a 65-70mpw average. This wasn't one of the years when hundreds qualified and she was safely under the cutoff. She did quality long runs >20 miles and has pretty much never had an injury in her life so stacked years of consistent training leading up to the OTQ. She's not someone you would call super talented based on HS/College but I think she has extremely specific marathon talent and took to the event right away. However, I think she has always been limited by her limited footspeed. Her PR marathon pace isn't much slower than her college XC PR. I haven't spent much time around truly elite marathoners but I've always imagined they're like my wife if she had her talent and was an elite miler in HS/college.
What is the lowest mileage week that an OTQ could have as their all-time highest week? Like, it doesn't count if you did 100 mile weeks for three years and then had a six-month block of 65 mpw average leading up to an OTQ.
I would be very interested to hear from an OTQ who never broke 75 mpw at any point in their lifetime training history.
I completely agree with you here. But both guys I mentioned were under 2:17 without going over 70 at that time. Both ran more later in their careers and turned in faster times.
In college I ran 29:05 for 10,000m off of 50 to 60 miles a week. After college I decided to train for a Marathon and increased to 110 to 130 Miles a week and ran 2:23. I think if I would have increased to 70 to 80 miles a week I would have ran 2:15-2:16 as the 2:23 I ran was over trained and injured.
In college I ran 29:05 for 10,000m off of 50 to 60 miles a week. After college I decided to train for a Marathon and increased to 110 to 130 Miles a week and ran 2:23. I think if I would have increased to 70 to 80 miles a week I would have ran 2:15-2:16 as the 2:23 I ran was over trained and injured.
To add when I was in the military I ran 2:24 for a marathon off of 30-40 miles a week running only 4 to 5 days a week with 10 mile long runs.
I believe Tony Sandoval did it on around 40/week back in the day.
Reportedly like 35/week, but he didn't just make the trials. He ran 2:10 and won. Probably the most talented road runner in US history.
But he had many years of running much more, usually around 100 as I recall. The benefits of doing that don't go away over night. I'd bet everything that if he'd never ran more than 35 a week we'd never had heard of him.
10 miles 12 10 15 10 13 quality on hills with 100 mile cycle each week on sunday plus minor amount of pull ups, push ups and situps. at altitude.... if fine if you have an aerobic engine, and track background.
You hear lots about the high mileage guys marathon training but what do you guys think the lowest possible weekly mileage is while still being fit enough to run 2:16:00
And what would that week look like? Bulky tempos 2 days a week and hard 20 milers every weekend? Bike every other day?
Jack Foster was doing 50 or so at times and was under 2:15. Sometimes he'd get to 70 or so. He ran at a pretty good clip over challenging terrain. I think the two consistent features were a long run of 15 or more miles and a session of mile reps, up to nine but not always, done on a horse track. He was doing more than that when he did his 2:11 but that was an unusual stretch of time for him.
Ron Hill ran 2:15:59 at Enschede, a new course record, in 1975 on something like 56 miles a week. But that was at the end of a rest period. At that time of his career he would get up to 90 or so. I've written here before about a friend, Bernie Allen, who set the previous record at Enschede four years earlier, 2:16:57 who was doing 60-70 in the lead up. That was high mileage for him. He did a 20 at maybe six minute pace weekly, a couple 10s working toward race pace and sometimes a session of mile reps.
Jack Foster was doing 50 or so at times and was under 2:15. Sometimes he'd get to 70 or so. He ran at a pretty good clip over challenging terrain. I think the two consistent features were a long run of 15 or more miles and a session of mile reps, up to nine but not always, done on a horse track. He was doing more than that when he did his 2:11 but that was an unusual stretch of time for him.
Ron Hill ran 2:15:59 at Enschede, a new course record, in 1975 on something like 56 miles a week. But that was at the end of a rest period. At that time of his career he would get up to 90 or so. I've written here before about a friend, Bernie Allen, who set the previous record at Enschede four years earlier, 2:16:57 who was doing 60-70 in the lead up. That was high mileage for him. He did a 20 at maybe six minute pace weekly, a couple 10s working toward race pace and sometimes a session of mile reps.
I think Foster was also doing significant mileage on the bike as part of his training.
Yes. But I believe the OP asked about miles run, not biked or cross country skied, etc. I don't know how you'd work miles covered in some way other than running into the mix.
no way, many can't break 2:30 at 100 mpw. 2:16 is another universe.
Talent more important than mileage.
High talent at 50mpw, beats poor talent with 100mpw.
50-60 range probably the low for 2:16 without any cross training.
I know a guy who falls into the "very talented but not elite" category. Ran D1. Ran solid times, wasn't winning NCAAs or even conference though. But as distances got longer, he just got better. He ran 40–50mpw. One hard long run almost every week. Then one other day of faster tempo work, like 5k–half marathon pace. The rest of his training was just easy days, anywhere from 0–8miles, at anywhere from 6:30–8:30 pace.
He ran in the low 2:20s like this. Considering that there are people even more talented than this guy, someone is running 2:15 off this style of training.