Norway 10km, September 27, Kibrab 28:07 destroys Nordås, 29:45

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Yes, he is enigmatic. But so is in many ways Almgren, that you mention, and I would also like to throw in Jakob here…

These three global medalists are all doing the double threshold after the Norwegian method ( developed by Marius Bakken), but there are differences between them that might be significant. -Maybe not so much in the base period, but clearly come May/June. But we don’t know the extent of this; especially Jakob seems to have developed things here we aren’t fully informed about…

We know that Jakob has had 122 miles pr week at his most in the base period, but also that he has stressed that he won’t go beyond that. Contrary to Andreas and Narve that are willing to expand that mileage… But that doesn’t have to result in too much difference -we know that Almgren can run fast in the HM in his base period (but not in the shorter events with so much mileage in his legs), whereas Ingebrigtsen and Nordås (especially the former) can be sharp in even the 1500m the year around…

Andreas Almgren is an enigma. -He ran 22.88 in the 200m and 48.33 in the 400m being 16 years and two months old (got a bronze in the U18 800m Worlds that year), and he then stabilised himself on 1.45 mid, and did a 48.38 indoors (aligns to a 47 something outdoors, doesn’t it?). So who would think he now is the European record holder in the 5000m (12.44), and in the roads 10k (26.53) and also is very near in the HM (59.23)!!?

Narve Nordås is seemingly very different from his Swedish colleague -he got a 1.58 high pb in the 800m some months before he turned 17, and only 4.07 pb in the 1500m that year (28 sec slower than Jakob who underperformed time wise that year). But in the 3000m he did 8.51; clearly his talent thus seemed to be in the longer events… And clearly he kept on evolving (very slowly in the 1500m, but significantly better in the 3/5 and even 10000m that he started running early in his teens… But here is some of the enigma stuff: While Nordås kept on improving in the longer distances (well, he ran 3 shabby HM’s -1.08- 1.09- 1.04.57), and even got a 5.th place in the indoors European champs 3000m a meter behind Katir, it suddenly said bang in the 1500m. -So why; he hadn’t shown any talent there, and still was extremely slow in a 400 and 800m according to himself!?

Well, the development was this: When he was 17 years and 9 months old he had had a gradual and natural progression to 4.02 in the 1500m. Then he waited three years for his next race in that event and did 3.49 low. OK -young people can take huge steps once in a while, but then he improved another 10 sec (3.39 low) the next year. But it doesn’t stop there -the following year he only ran the event once; an easy win in 3.36 (3 sec improvement, but clearly worth more since it wasn’t all out). And then, in addition to all this: Two races the next year in 3.29 mid -one of them the WC, where he came like a freight train in the home stretch, and nearly caught both Jakob and Kerr. -What the….

More about this, and also about Andreas Almgren and Jakob Ingebrigtsen as enigmas in my next post…

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Yes, he is enigmatic. But so is in many ways Almgren, that you mention, and I would also like to throw in Jakob here…

These three global medalists are all doing the double threshold after the Norwegian method ( developed by Marius Bakken), but there are differences between them that might be significant. -Maybe not so much in the base period, but clearly come May/June. But we don’t know the extent of this; especially Jakob seems to have developed things here we aren’t fully informed about…

We know that Jakob has had 122 miles pr week at his most in the base period, but also that he has stressed that he won’t go beyond that. Contrary to Andreas and Narve that are willing to expand that mileage… But that doesn’t have to result in too much difference -we know that Almgren can run fast in the HM in his base period (but not in the shorter events with so much mileage in his legs), whereas Ingebrigtsen and Nordås (especially the former) can be sharp in even the 1500m the year around…

Andreas Almgren is an enigma. -He ran 22.88 in the 200m and 48.33 in the 400m being 16 years and two months old (got a bronze in the U18 800m Worlds that year), and he then stabilised himself on 1.45 mid, and did a 48.38 indoors (aligns to a 47 something outdoors, doesn’t it?). So who would think he now is the European record holder in the 5000m (12.44), and in the roads 10k (26.53) and also is very near in the HM (59.23)!!?

Narve Nordås is seemingly very different from his Swedish colleague -he got a 1.58 high pb in the 800m some months before he turned 17, and only 4.07 pb in the 1500m that year (28 sec slower than Jakob who underperformed time wise that year). But in the 3000m he did 8.51; clearly his talent thus seemed to be in the longer events… And clearly he kept on evolving (very slowly in the 1500m, but significantly better in the 3/5 and even 10000m that he started running early in his teens… But here is some of the enigma stuff: While Nordås kept on improving in the longer distances (well, he ran 3 shabby HM’s -1.08- 1.09- 1.04.57), and even got a 5.th place in the indoors European champs 3000m a meter behind Katir, it suddenly said bang in the 1500m. -So why; he hadn’t shown any talent there, and still was extremely slow in a 400 and 800m according to himself!?

Well, the development was this: When he was 17 years and 9 months old he had had a gradual and natural progression to 4.02 in the 1500m. Then he waited three years for his next race in that event and did 3.49 low. OK -young people can take huge steps once in a while, but then he improved another 10 sec (3.39 low) the next year. But it doesn’t stop there -the following year he only ran the event once; an easy win in 3.36 (3 sec improvement, but clearly worth more since it wasn’t all out). And then, in addition to all this: Two races the next year in 3.29 mid -one of them the WC, where he came like a freight train in the home stretch, and nearly caught both Jakob and Kerr. -What the….

More about this, and also about Andreas Almgren and Jakob Ingebrigtsen as enigmas in my next post…

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Yes, he is enigmatic. But so is in many ways Almgren, that you mention, and I would also like to throw in Jakob here…

These three global medalists are all doing the double threshold after the Norwegian method ( developed by Marius Bakken), but there are differences between them that might be significant. -Maybe not so much in the base period, but clearly come May/June. But we don’t know the extent of this; especially Jakob seems to have developed things here we aren’t fully informed about…

We know that Jakob has had 122 miles pr week at his most in the base period, but also that he has stressed that he won’t go beyond that. Contrary to Andreas and Narve that are willing to expand that mileage… But that doesn’t have to result in too much difference -we know that Almgren can run fast in the HM in his base period (but not in the shorter events with so much mileage in his legs), whereas Ingebrigtsen and Nordås (especially the former) can be sharp in even the 1500m the year around…

Andreas Almgren is an enigma. -He ran 22.88 in the 200m and 48.33 in the 400m being 16 years and two months old (got a bronze in the U18 800m Worlds that year), and he then stabilised himself on 1.45 mid, and did a 48.38 indoors (aligns to a 47 something outdoors, doesn’t it?). So who would think he now is the European record holder in the 5000m (12.44), and in the roads 10k (26.53) and also is very near in the HM (59.23)!!?

Narve Nordås is seemingly very different from his Swedish colleague -he got a 1.58 high pb in the 800m some months before he turned 17, and only 4.07 pb in the 1500m that year (28 sec slower than Jakob who underperformed time wise that year). But in the 3000m he did 8.51; clearly his talent thus seemed to be in the longer events… And clearly he kept on evolving (very slowly in the 1500m, but significantly better in the 3/5 and even 10000m that he started running early in his teens… But here is some of the enigma stuff: While Nordås kept on improving in the longer distances (well, he ran 3 shabby HM’s -1.08- 1.09- 1.04.57), and even got a 5.th place in the indoors European champs 3000m a meter behind Katir, it suddenly said bang in the 1500m. -So why; he hadn’t shown any talent there, and still was extremely slow in a 400 and 800m according to himself!?

Well, the development was this: When he was 17 years and 9 months old he had had a gradual and natural progression to 4.02 in the 1500m. Then he waited three years for his next race in that event and did 3.49 low. OK -young people can take huge steps once in a while, but then he improved another 10 sec (3.39 low) the next year. But it doesn’t stop there -the following year he only ran the event once; an easy win in 3.36 (3 sec improvement, but clearly worth more since it wasn’t all out). And then, in addition to all this: Two races the next year in 3.29 mid -one of them the WC, where he came like a freight train in the home stretch, and nearly caught both Jakob and Kerr. -What the….

More about this, and also about Andreas Almgren and Jakob Ingebrigtsen as enigmas in my next post…

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

Absolutely - I'd say he is just a little less strong (at 5k/10k) compared with Almgren. Nordås also seems to be more fragile mentally, and unpredictable in Championship races. He could be great or lousy on any given day. Dude is enigmatic.

Yes, he is enigmatic. But so is in many ways Almgren, that you mention, and I would also like to throw in Jakob here…

These three global medalists are all doing the double threshold after the Norwegian method ( developed by Marius Bakken), but there are differences between them that might be significant. -Maybe not so much in the base period, but clearly come May/June. But we don’t know the extent of this; especially Jakob seems to have developed things here we aren’t fully informed about…

We know that Jakob has had 122 miles pr week at his most in the base period, but also that he has stressed that he won’t go beyond that. Contrary to Andreas and Narve that are willing to expand that mileage… But that doesn’t have to result in too much difference -we know that Almgren can run fast in the HM in his base period (but not in the shorter events with so much mileage in his legs), whereas Ingebrigtsen and Nordås (especially the former) can be sharp in even the 1500m the year around…

Andreas Almgren is an enigma. -He ran 22.88 in the 200m and 48.33 in the 400m being 16 years and two months old (got a bronze in the U18 800m Worlds that year), and he then stabilised himself on 1.45 mid, and did a 48.38 indoors (aligns to a 47 something outdoors, doesn’t it?). So who would think he now is the European record holder in the 5000m (12.44), and in the roads 10k (26.53) and also is very near in the HM (59.23)!!?

Narve Nordås is seemingly very different from his Swedish colleague -he got a 1.58 high pb in the 800m some months before he turned 17, and only 4.07 pb in the 1500m that year (28 sec slower than Jakob who underperformed time wise that year). But in the 3000m he did 8.51; clearly his talent thus seemed to be in the longer events… And clearly he kept on evolving (very slowly in the 1500m, but significantly better in the 3/5 and even 10000m that he started running early in his teens… But here is some of the enigma stuff: While Nordås kept on improving in the longer distances (well, he ran 3 shabby HM’s -1.08- 1.09- 1.04.57), and even got a 5.th place in the indoors European champs 3000m a meter behind Katir, it suddenly said bang in the 1500m. -So why; he hadn’t shown any talent there, and still was extremely slow in a 400 and 800m according to himself!?

Well, the development was this: When he was 17 years and 9 months old he had had a gradual and natural progression to 4.02 in the 1500m. Then he waited three years for his next race in that event and did 3.49 low. OK -young people can take huge steps once in a while, but then he improved another 10 sec (3.39 low) the next year. But it doesn’t stop there -the following year he only ran the event once; an easy win in 3.36 (3 sec improvement, but clearly worth more since it wasn’t all out). And then, in addition to all this: Two races the next year in 3.29 mid -one of them the WC, where he came like a freight train in the home stretch, and nearly caught both Jakob and Kerr. -What the….

More about this, and also about Andreas Almgren and Jakob Ingebrigtsen as enigmas in my next post…

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

I’m aware of Almgren’s background and initial training. But doing a 22.88 and 48.33 just turned 16 years old, and then many years later breaking European records in the distance events, and maybe even in the HM, makes him an outlier and quite an enigma. And I mean all this of course in a positive way.

But it gets even more interesting if one compares him with Nordås and J. Ingebrigtsen, which I will do in some future posts…

Okey -to conclude a little when it comes to Nordås: I think he has prematurely stagnated, and has more to give in the 1500m/mile. And that he also should be on the same level as Almgren in the 5000m, and not that far behind Jakob in the 3000m. But clearly he has to choose his races and strategy -get a lot more of them when he is well rested and the conditions are good… He has by the way shown some glimpses in the 5000m: His heat in OG 2024, but also in the Nationals against Jakob -front running in the wind to a decent time and giving the coming Olympic gold medalist a fair fight…

Then Almgren: It’s strange that his 1500m PB (3.32.00) is 2.53 sec slower than Nordås’, when he obviously has a far better 2/4/800m talent, but also impressive long distance strength. So what does Andreas say himself?: That it was way too much injuries for him with that speed based training, and that double threshold suits him far better.

OK, sure. But Jakob and Narve (and teenager Håkon Moe Berg -PB 3.30.28) have shown that double threshold aligns good with progress in the 1500m, if one isn’t so afraid of letting up when the race season is nearing, as Andreas says he is.

I know of (mid) distance guys who have made very good progress in the 200 and 400m without diving into a speed based training regime. And it’s tempting to speculate what a guy with at least a 2 sec better 400m talent than Nordås could have done in the 1500m. Andreas himself has proposed 3.30 if he focused on the event (meaning flat, I guess), but I think that is way, way too conservative. But saying all this, I acknowledge that it must be a reason for his (long) distance priority, and maybe that is that he feels more comfortable with that training/has more feeling of control/think it’s way less chance of getting injured…

But it’s an enigma that the guy is so good in both ends, and not in the middle, even if we can understand how it happened.

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Yes, he is enigmatic. But so is in many ways Almgren, that you mention, and I would also like to throw in Jakob here…

These three global medalists are all doing the double threshold after the Norwegian method ( developed by Marius Bakken), but there are differences between them that might be significant. -Maybe not so much in the base period, but clearly come May/June. But we don’t know the extent of this; especially Jakob seems to have developed things here we aren’t fully informed about…

We know that Jakob has had 122 miles pr week at his most in the base period, but also that he has stressed that he won’t go beyond that. Contrary to Andreas and Narve that are willing to expand that mileage… But that doesn’t have to result in too much difference -we know that Almgren can run fast in the HM in his base period (but not in the shorter events with so much mileage in his legs), whereas Ingebrigtsen and Nordås (especially the former) can be sharp in even the 1500m the year around…

Andreas Almgren is an enigma. -He ran 22.88 in the 200m and 48.33 in the 400m being 16 years and two months old (got a bronze in the U18 800m Worlds that year), and he then stabilised himself on 1.45 mid, and did a 48.38 indoors (aligns to a 47 something outdoors, doesn’t it?). So who would think he now is the European record holder in the 5000m (12.44), and in the roads 10k (26.53) and also is very near in the HM (59.23)!!?

Narve Nordås is seemingly very different from his Swedish colleague -he got a 1.58 high pb in the 800m some months before he turned 17, and only 4.07 pb in the 1500m that year (28 sec slower than Jakob who underperformed time wise that year). But in the 3000m he did 8.51; clearly his talent thus seemed to be in the longer events… And clearly he kept on evolving (very slowly in the 1500m, but significantly better in the 3/5 and even 10000m that he started running early in his teens… But here is some of the enigma stuff: While Nordås kept on improving in the longer distances (well, he ran 3 shabby HM’s -1.08- 1.09- 1.04.57), and even got a 5.th place in the indoors European champs 3000m a meter behind Katir, it suddenly said bang in the 1500m. -So why; he hadn’t shown any talent there, and still was extremely slow in a 400 and 800m according to himself!?

Well, the development was this: When he was 17 years and 9 months old he had had a gradual and natural progression to 4.02 in the 1500m. Then he waited three years for his next race in that event and did 3.49 low. OK -young people can take huge steps once in a while, but then he improved another 10 sec (3.39 low) the next year. But it doesn’t stop there -the following year he only ran the event once; an easy win in 3.36 (3 sec improvement, but clearly worth more since it wasn’t all out). And then, in addition to all this: Two races the next year in 3.29 mid -one of them the WC, where he came like a freight train in the home stretch, and nearly caught both Jakob and Kerr. -What the….

More about this, and also about Andreas Almgren and Jakob Ingebrigtsen as enigmas in my next post…

In this post I will raise some questions that I clearly cannot answer (sometimes not at all, sometimes at least not fully), because it’s nevertheless interesting to wonder about the future:

1. Why has Narve Nordås stopped improving (OK; he got his 10k roads time down around half a minute not that long ago, but even there he seems to have hit a wall after that):

Well, after a recession in 2024 (time wise, and also in the champs, despite his 7 placing in the OG 1500m) he has pb’ed in the mile, and with one second in the 5000m (indoors) in 2025, but since he didn’t reach any WC finals, he has gone backwards (his 3.47 and 3.30 also register as worse than his two 3.29’s in 2023, despite not being injured for some seven years, and also been very little sick (although suffered a little more from a cold this winter than usually). -Is it normal to have a huge improvement, and then suddenly stop, and even go a little backwards, at 26/27 years of age?? I get it if he has reached his peak level, but why on earth would he reach it that fast?? So is it the training that isn’t good enough, or the conflict he is in that is extremely damaging, or something else?

My suggestions to “something else”: Nordås seems to have a huge problem with his positioning in the races. Way too often he is at the tail, then advances, with the cost of speeding up, going wide ++, and then let him self dead last again. And furthermore: When he ran his 5k road pb he was close to the NR, and even the European record, and claimed that he could have broken both that day, despite being 5 sec behind Reynold Cheruiyot, that he claimed he hadn’t spotted -What the heck! And like wise after winning a 3000m in a slight PR (7.33) after drafting on Lobalu I think it was -again this thing about “I could have run faster”. So why the heck didn’t he do so! And in his 10k road PR -he passed a huge amount of his competitors in the last 5-6-700meters in a speedy finish. So why not follow the lead and get one self a good time?!

2. Why is he so bad in the 3 and 5000m? -He is 16 sec behind Jakob in the 3000m, and 16 sec shy of his compatriot’s underperformed 5000m PR, when he clearly should have more talent in the longer events than the 1500m? (Based on his early times). And based on his high mileage training. Well, he doesn’t thrive all that well in the hot weather of the champs, and doesn’t recover well from his doubling with the 1500m first, but he neither gets the fast times indoors nor in cold weather, so….

I get it that he is prioritising the 1500m, but so did Jakob when he ran his fast 3000meters.

More in the next post…