Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Throw Chebet, Kipyegon, and Tsegay in the same race under good conditions and pacing that 3,000 falls right now.
Yeah, those three dopers with super-shoes and adjusted EPO dosages along with the improved PED stacks they’ve been enjoying, you’re probably right.
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Wang has stated she was doped as part of Ma's army.
Koch and Kratochvilova are both included in documents detailing their respective doping protocols (along with their country women.) They both ran their PRs pretty late in their career.
Griffith Joyner took 1986 off from running and returned fully in '88 with a noticeably more muscular frame, dropping her 100m PR by .50 and her 200m PR by .58 at the age of 28.
Joyner-Kersee... seems to have excelled pretty much all throughout her career, both young and mature. She was consistent. Her brother was accused of administering PEDs to his athletes but no reproach or official penalty ever resulted.
Al Joyner? I had never heard this accusation about him.
Wang has stated she was doped as part of Ma's army.
Koch and Kratochvilova are both included in documents detailing their respective doping protocols (along with their country women.) They both ran their PRs pretty late in their career.
Griffith Joyner took 1986 off from running and returned fully in '88 with a noticeably more muscular frame, dropping her 100m PR by .50 and her 200m PR by .58 at the age of 28.
Joyner-Kersee... seems to have excelled pretty much all throughout her career, both young and mature. She was consistent. Her brother was accused of administering PEDs to his athletes but no reproach or official penalty ever resulted.
What documents exist regarding Kratochvilova? There is zero documentary evidence on her, unlike Koch. The only evidence we have for the Czech is our own eyes.
For both Flo Jo & JJK, we have the testimony of former Kersee athlete Angela Bailey in the Dubin Inquiry & the accusations of Darrell Robinson to Stern magazine.
There was also mud-slinging from other coaches at that time, notably Pat Connolly & the disgraced Chuck DeBus. Since then (unreliable?) Victor Conte too. On top of Exum's dirt.
Anyone who thinks JJK is clean, just because she was talented, is coo-coo.
One reason JJK has held the heptahlon record for so long is it is an obscure event . How many heptahletes are there compared to the other events ?
I thought it was because the javelin or discus (I forget what’s in the hep) was modified in the ‘90s and basically impossible to match the old scores? Could be wrong though.
One reason JJK has held the heptahlon record for so long is it is an obscure event . How many heptahletes are there compared to the other events ?
I thought it was because the javelin or discus (I forget what’s in the hep) was modified in the ‘90s and basically impossible to match the old scores? Could be wrong though.
The Javelin specification has changed twice since JJK's WR. It terms of points impact, it potentially means JJK's amended score could possibly be 726ish0 (i.e. still insane) whilst someone like Thiam would just about be overtaking JJKs 7044 score, and Kluft & Hall possibly getting toward 7060.
Of course the heptathlon is not as deep as other events, it's so technical, but when you consider nations with great technical knowledge & history (Germany, UK) or with both technical knowledge & huge populations (USA, RUS) have not come close, you have to ask why.
There is absolutely no doubt JJK is a top talent. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But top talent + drugs makes you do something surreal. And very importantly, the rumours regarding the Kersee regime were they were using steroids + HGH....something the East Germans never experimented with, only steroids. That is why, up until that point, it was very much GDR vs USA in the sprints & the GDR were dominating the heptathlon (& other events, obviously). But feeding Flo Jo HGH saw her transform from GDR-ish standards to crazy woman standards. Same with JJK. Going from 22.8s and 22.9s over 200m to 22.30, and to also be able to throw the shot 16m, and jump 7.40 & 1.9+.....no, just no.
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Wang has stated she was doped as part of Ma's army.
Koch and Kratochvilova are both included in documents detailing their respective doping protocols (along with their country women.) They both ran their PRs pretty late in their career.
Griffith Joyner took 1986 off from running and returned fully in '88 with a noticeably more muscular frame, dropping her 100m PR by .50 and her 200m PR by .58 at the age of 28.
Joyner-Kersee... seems to have excelled pretty much all throughout her career, both young and mature. She was consistent. Her brother was accused of administering PEDs to his athletes but no reproach or official penalty ever resulted.
flo Jo returned in 1987 and got a silver in the 200 WC, breaking 22 seconds in the 200, and getting a gold in the 4 by 100 meter relay, actually.
Of the five, I would be inclined to think Kersee would be the most likely to be clean. Other that the long jump, none of her events were excessively great. She was very good in seven events but was nowhere near even medal contention let alone WR level in anything but the LJ. The multis require outstanding athletic ability in a broad range of disciplines but not incredible ability in anything.
Can't say she didn't dope (it was the greatest era of doping in history), but she is my choice of the five for "most likely clean."
ACTUALLY.....JJK used to have one of the 12.6 American records in the 100 meter hurdles, I believe, before Devers broke it. Not world class in anything else, huh?
Wang has stated she was doped as part of Ma's army.
I also remain convinced that the track where those records were set was short. The times defy belief even if you allow that she was doping (which she was).
Lax testing - more like zero testing? They didn't test for EPO until 2000 (really only a few distance runners) and 2004 for HGH. That is just assuming individual usage compared to the state sponsored most of these runners were on.
By ‘88 the entire Kenyan distance squad was already on EPO, there was no real test, same for HGH at the time, no test, and Bob Kersee was apparently an “early adopter”. Like someone else pointed out in another thread, look up Dr. Wade Exum, who used to run testing for the USOC. He still has all the test results and copies of letters sent to athletes. Sprinters and jumpers were getting away with astounding levels of drug use, including Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and so on. Lewis is the biggest and most hilarious hypocrite, and Griffith likely paid the ultimate price for using early, tainted HGH, even though it’s denied.
What evidence do you have that the Kenyans were on EPO in 1988? EPO was first approved in 1987 in Europe and 1989 in the U.S. It was first used in cycling in the late 1980s, and they are early drug adopters.
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Who are five people who have never been in my kitchen?
By ‘88 the entire Kenyan distance squad was already on EPO, there was no real test, same for HGH at the time, no test, and Bob Kersee was apparently an “early adopter”. Like someone else pointed out in another thread, look up Dr. Wade Exum, who used to run testing for the USOC. He still has all the test results and copies of letters sent to athletes. Sprinters and jumpers were getting away with astounding levels of drug use, including Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and so on. Lewis is the biggest and most hilarious hypocrite, and Griffith likely paid the ultimate price for using early, tainted HGH, even though it’s denied.
What evidence do you have that the Kenyans were on EPO in 1988? EPO was first approved in 1987 in Europe and 1989 in the U.S. It was first used in cycling in the late 1980s, and they are early drug adopters.
I’ll step in. Billy Konchellah, for one, bragged about the “new drug” that allowed him to win the WC in ‘87 and again in ‘91. Ask Johnny Gray. EPO was approved in ‘87 in the US, not ‘89. It was approved in Europe in ‘89. It was actually first purified in 1977. Too many people believe that approval dates for drugs are when people actually start using them as part of a PED stack.
Interesting side note, pedophile, rapist, drug cheat Konchellah is now an anti-doping official in Kenya (in before Trump jokes). That’s the type of tomfoolery we get from Kenyans claiming they’re trying to clean things up.