Yeah there’s like one Irish athlete relevant per decade.
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Let\'s be fair and impartial wrote:
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
Euro U20 1500m champ.
Millrose High School Mile Champ in 2021
Studying Astrophysics, was injured for 3 years and found it difficult to balance academia and training.
Fagan was a busted flush at the end of his career.
Lombard was a nobody finishing mid 30s at national XC before juicing to win..Everyone was talking about him as a juicer at the time
I will take the Pepsi challange for the Irish antidoping system against literally any other country you care to mention
Definitely 100x true when compared with USA, Canada, Morocco or Kenya
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Pwocc wrote:
Yeah there’s like one Irish athlete relevant per decade.
There were 2 relevant Athletes today.
We also had finalists in the men's and womens 1500m
Unlucky not to have a second athlete In the 800m and Darragh McEllhenny was close In the 5000m.
A very good champs for such a small country
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.243 -
High hopes wrote:
No one on here will want to pull at that thread after Lutkenhaus's 1:42 at USAs
High schoolers often have big jumps while going through puberty. Cian is 23.
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People act like huge jumps in the 800m is unusual. It's always been that way - it's a fickle event to train perfectly for. Same goes for declines in the 800, it often happens quickly.
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Hi, I'm not sure if you follow athletics that closely, but Cian won the European Junior 1500m ,which is about the best predictor that exists currently for future senior success in underage athletics.
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here to converse wrote:
High hopes wrote:
No one on here will want to pull at that thread after Lutkenhaus's 1:42 at USAs
High schoolers often have big jumps while going through puberty. Cian is 23.
Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
This post was edited 35 seconds after it was posted.85 -
High hopes wrote:
here to converse wrote:
High schoolers often have big jumps while going through puberty. Cian is 23.
Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
Hundreds if not thousands of 16 year olds have big jumps every single year. He just happens to be the most talented. Showed it at 15 too.
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And yet, none of them managed to even drop below 1:45
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High hopes wrote:
here to converse wrote:
High schoolers often have big jumps while going through puberty. Cian is 23.
Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
Does a 10 flat 16 year old Japanese sprinter count?
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High hopes wrote:
And yet, none of them managed to even drop below 1:45
None of them get to run behind professionals dragging them to a fast time.
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irish running guy wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if you follow athletics that closely, but Cian won the European Junior 1500m ,which is about the best predictor that exists currently for future senior success in underage athletics.
No-one has ever heard of people like Nuno Pereira, Adam Cotton, Mario Scapini or Colin Costello. People like Kerr, Wightman, Laros of course went on to have success, but none of them ever had a massive unprecedented drop like this.
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Togher wrote:
Let\'s be fair and impartial wrote:
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
Euro U20 1500m champ.
Millrose High School Mile Champ in 2021
Studying Astrophysics, was injured for 3 years and found it difficult to balance academia and training.
Fagan was a busted flush at the end of his career.
Lombard was a nobody finishing mid 30s at national XC before juicing to win..Everyone was talking about him as a juicer at the time
I will take the Pepsi challange for the Irish antidoping system against literally any other country you care to mention
Definitely 100x true when compared with USA, Canada, Morocco or Kenya
The 13.50’s jump to 13.19 was bad enough but to say cath was mid 30’s is just ridiculous
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An honest conversation about Irish athletes needs to mention that they never had a sports star who wasn't a massive doper. Also doping is rife in their most popular sport, can't remember the name because who cares.
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Saying he came from nowhere isn’t true. He was a phenom underage and had a bad run of injury plus intense studies. Appreciate this is a US focused site so he prob slipped under the radar. Those in Irish athletics would’ve expected him to be a future Irish record holder.
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Ockham's Razor wrote:
Deacon wrote:
Usually I push back on these allegations towards athletes who aren't from nations who consistently dope but face scrutiny from contrarian white knights fighting the Kenyan, American and Ethiopian corners just because they run well. But after seeing all the 800m runners cross the line with excruciating pain etched across their face accept McPhillips who was completely stone faced finishing like a freight train, I'll be honest, the thought did cross my mind, especially having never heard of him before the heats lol
This is it really. I can accept him being clean, but I would hope that for consistency's sake, no-one who is defending him here will ever use a large jump in form or "not looking tired" when they cross the line as a justification to accuse another athlete.
I'm not sure that suspecting an athlete from a country where the AIU says drug testing doesn't meet standards and has something like 140 busts who makes a large jump and doesn't look tired after a hard race while being less suspicious of an athlete from a country with a slight history of doping and an adequate testing program who does the same is all that inconsistent. But yes, as Nick WIllis once said,everyone is under suspicion. But some are justifiably under more of it than others.
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Ockham\'s Razor wrote:
irish running guy wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if you follow athletics that closely, but Cian won the European Junior 1500m ,which is about the best predictor that exists currently for future senior success in underage athletics.
No-one has ever heard of people like Nuno Pereira, Adam Cotton, Mario Scapini or Colin Costello. People like Kerr, Wightman, Laros of course went on to have success, but none of them ever had a massive unprecedented drop like this.
Oh yeah? Athing Mu won the Olympics as a 21 year old.
Talented Junior goes on to achieve senior success shocker.
Cian has been injured.
The whole event has stepped forward possibly due to PEDs but probably due to Bicarb
The whole field went 1:43.
Bryce Hoppel had a passive Jump in Paris..Nowhere this year. Riddle me that.
Donovan Brazier another talented Junior injured for close on 5 years ran a PB at USAs.
Stop the presses
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the list of Irish athletes that have found themselves upgraded to olympic/ worlds medal positions is actually longer and more notable. Sonia OSullivan, Derval ORourke, Robert Heffernan for example.
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This is just straight up lies? Why resort to complete nonsense and fabrication?
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here to converse wrote:
High hopes wrote:
And yet, none of them managed to even drop below 1:45
None of them get to run behind professionals dragging them to a fast time.
Well, they kind of do. And let's not forget he's a full second faster than any u-18 ever - that includes doped up Kenyan age cheats, and 1.5 seconds faster than Wanyonyi at the same age. Again, rationalise it however you like, it's an eyebrow-raising performance form an runner that wasn't in the resting pool at the time, that this board would tear to shreds if the athlete wasn't American.
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