Americans are running faster than ever because of BPN’s G.1.M.+
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12
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briguy wrote:
A big motivation for me to stop drinking was seeing my resting heart rate the nights I drank vs when I didn’t. 5-10 bpm lower when I don’t drink. Even one IPA raises it
Interesting, one drink seems to make no difference to anything for me. Maybe if one systematically ran a statistical analysis of my RHR and single drink consumption, there might be some correlation but it’s hardly obvious. If I have a few drinks, it might go up by 3-4 beats but it might also go up by that much sometimes for no good reason at all. 10 bpm is practically fever territory for me.
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Wearables definitely highlighted the acute effects of drinking for me. That coupled with one of Huberman's podcasts on alcohol got me to cut back. I even went without a single drink for a couple months.
But while I didn't have the acute effects of high HR during sleep after drinking, I saw absolutely nothing over longer periods of time. None of my metrics got better. I didn't feel generally better (nor worse). I still got sick when things were going through my kids' schools. The weird part is that my HRV never aligned with what you'd expect from drinking--it actually has some of its highest overnight marks when I've had 1-2 early in the evening.
So while I am definitely not advocating for it, I have relaxed about it recently. It's actually enjoyable to say, "sure," when my neighbor asks if I want a brew on nice summer night as our dogs chase each other around the yard.
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Isn't this whole effect likely driven by supershoes? That's a huge component it seems we're not touching on here that just so happens to have started around the same time as drinking dipping
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It is naive to imagine this explains recent leaps in US performances. Serious athletes have never been heavy drinkers or alcoholics. I doubt the E Germans gave up drinking. They still medalled.
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Alexi Santana wrote:
Isn't this whole effect likely driven by supershoes? That's a huge component it seems we're not touching on here that just so happens to have started around the same time as drinking dipping
It won't be just the shoes either.
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Health benefits of Islam.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
It is naive to imagine this explains recent leaps in US performances. Serious athletes have never been heavy drinkers or alcoholics. I doubt the E Germans gave up drinking. They still medalled.
Sorry, I forgot Prefontaine. There are always exceptions. It didn't appear to slow him down on the track but it should have slowed him down behind the wheel.
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rojo wrote:
This might explain why I sucked back in the day. A very interesting article.
That being said, is this treally true.
Rachel Bachman wrote:
“In the past, only a small minority [of runners] abstained,” Willis wrote. “Now it’s the vast majority.”The "vast majoriy" of runners don't drink? Or is he referring to getting hammered immediately after the 5th avenue mile.
I will say that when my brother and Matt Downin were living in DC and enjoying the night life, they weren't very good. They both moved away and presumably stopped drinking as much and got A LOT better. Downin won USAs the year Webb ran 3:53.
But I'm supposed to believe drinking is huge, but taking a bunch of edibles has no impact. Here is the last line of the article;
Drug-testing rules ban cannabis use only during competition. So partaking with ample time between races is allowed.
“I’m one of those,” Engels said. “I used to drink and I don’t really like to anymore. I’d rather get high.”
NIce job bait & switch reeling people in on the Michalski article. "Hey join the supporters club and read the rest!!!"
I'll wait until after Worlds to read it.
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I guess Bill Rodgers had it all wrong.
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briguy wrote:
800 dude wrote:
I wouldn't assume that. There are a lot of reasons for the society-wide drop in drinking, but a big part of it is that there is far more widespread awareness of the health consequences of even moderate drinking. It's not just that the research is piling up; runners also wear devices that can quantify what happens to your heart after you drink. It's hard to believe now, but twenty years ago, moderate drinking was actually considered healthier than abstinence. (It's now understood that moderate social drinking is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, which made earlier observational studies unreliable.) Even if broader social trends change, I would expect elites to continue sticking to practices that they think (with good reason) help them to perform better.
A big motivation for me to stop drinking was seeing my resting heart rate the nights I drank vs when I didn’t. 5-10 bpm lower when I don’t drink. Even one IPA raises it
I stopped drinking during training for exactly this reason. Also, I was beginning to get mild hangovers after 2 IPAs and I determined it just wasn't worth it.
Anecdotally, I think this has at least as much to do with IPAs as alcohol in general. I've read that there are certain ingredients common within IPAs that some of us have reactions to. Drinking whiskey seemed to lead to better sleep, for me.
The beers runners were drinking in the 80s were probably not as big of a deal.
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I don't know how much Pre drank, but his PR was about 13:22. His best rivals, Viren and Puttemans, ran 13:13. (Pre did beat Puttemans in Munich.) Maybe Pre woulda run under 13:20 if he didn't hit the beer?
Over here, I left high school with a best mile of 4:30; in four years of college the best I could do was a 1500 in 4:01. Maybe worth 10-11 seconds improvement. Why the lack of improvement??? In a word: Beer.
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briguy wrote:
800 dude wrote:
I wouldn't assume that. There are a lot of reasons for the society-wide drop in drinking, but a big part of it is that there is far more widespread awareness of the health consequences of even moderate drinking. It's not just that the research is piling up; runners also wear devices that can quantify what happens to your heart after you drink. It's hard to believe now, but twenty years ago, moderate drinking was actually considered healthier than abstinence. (It's now understood that moderate social drinking is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, which made earlier observational studies unreliable.) Even if broader social trends change, I would expect elites to continue sticking to practices that they think (with good reason) help them to perform better.
A big motivation for me to stop drinking was seeing my resting heart rate the nights I drank vs when I didn’t. 5-10 bpm lower when I don’t drink. Even one IPA raises it
Chronic obsession with arbitrary data and numbers is way more unhealthy than the occasional beer with dinner. The OCD mindset of always needing metrics to be within some made up range is way worse on well being.
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Andy Dufresne wrote:
briguy wrote:
A big motivation for me to stop drinking was seeing my resting heart rate the nights I drank vs when I didn’t. 5-10 bpm lower when I don’t drink. Even one IPA raises it
I stopped drinking during training for exactly this reason. Also, I was beginning to get mild hangovers after 2 IPAs and I determined it just wasn't worth it.
Anecdotally, I think this has at least as much to do with IPAs as alcohol in general. I've read that there are certain ingredients common within IPAs that some of us have reactions to. Drinking whiskey seemed to lead to better sleep, for me.
The beers runners were drinking in the 80s were probably not as big of a deal.
This has been my finding, as well! I am wrecked if I have a couple IPAs at the beer garden. On the other hand, I can have a couple strong bourbon drinks and be just fine the next day (sometimes, I actually feel great). I've wondered if it's beer-specific. It sounds like it's the type of the beer that's the culprit.
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I think it has less to do with removing alcohol specifically, and more to do with overall focus on diet. If you're measuring out every meal, tracking macros, limiting ultra processed foods, all for every marginal gain possible, how would you justify any amount of alcohol? I'm not saying that's good or bad or that these people should be enjoying life a bit more. Just explaining the mindset and how eliminating alcohol is just a natural biproduct of that attention to detail.
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800 dude wrote:
It's hard to believe now, but twenty years ago, moderate drinking was actually considered healthier than abstinence. (It's now understood that moderate social drinking is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, which made earlier observational studies unreliable.).
It's not hard to believe, because up until very, very recently, virtually every large scale epidemiological study showed that moderate drinkers outlived abstainers.
Now, yes, there has been a recent spate of studies showing that there were some confounding factors not controlled for in those studies[ which will be true for all epidemiological studies]. Socioeconomic status was always controlled for but maybe not perfectly. More, they have realized that many abstainers didn't drink due to various health reasons.
However, the case is certainly not closed shut as you and many make it out to seem. These are still not gold standard, double blind, placebo controlled studies. Therefore they are certainly imperfect. And furthermore, some of these studies recently grabbing headlines absolutely exaggerated their results [ and/or the media did]. In many of the studies, there was very little difference between moderate drinkers longevity and abstainers, even when all of the newly controlled factors were plugged in. Some still showed potential heart health benefits.
One study out of mass general last year found direct link/ pathway to The potential heart health benefits of alcohol where alcohol reduces stress via the brain. This seem especially pronounced in those with higher levels of anxiety and and stress.
Lastly, the long-awaited new US dietary guidelines is still going to say that moderate drinkers outlive abstainers and that there are heart health benefits to moderate drinking.
"the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine (NASEM) released a report that was commissioned to inform the 2025 Dietary Guidelines. It found that, compared to people who never drank, moderate drinkers had lower all-cause mortality and a lower risk of death from cardiovascular disease."
[ now, yes, this is a bit controversial. As there are accusations of the authors being funded by alcohol industry. However.... They rely on some fairly strong studies to come to their conclusions].
Cheers! 🍻
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rojo wrote:
This might explain why I sucked back in the day. A very interesting article.
That being said, is this treally true.
Rachel Bachman wrote:
“In the past, only a small minority [of runners] abstained,” Willis wrote. “Now it’s the vast majority.”The "vast majoriy" of runners don't drink? Or is he referring to getting hammered immediately after the 5th avenue mile.
I will say that when my brother and Matt Downin were living in DC and enjoying the night life, they weren't very good. They both moved away and presumably stopped drinking as much and got A LOT better. Downin won USAs the year Webb ran 3:53.
But I'm supposed to believe drinking is huge, but taking a bunch of edibles has no impact. Here is the last line of the article;
Drug-testing rules ban cannabis use only during competition. So partaking with ample time between races is allowed.
“I’m one of those,” Engels said. “I used to drink and I don’t really like to anymore. I’d rather get high.”
A couple thoughts.
1. In the 2016 Olympics, U.S men won gold in the 1500m, silver in the 5000m and 3000m steeplechase, and bronze in the 800m and marathon. That's a great haul, and I'm not sure we've seen big improvement since. This limits how much recent declines in alcohol intake can explain in terms of relative U.S. performance.
2. Alcohol absolutely has a big effect on hormone levels, particularly increasing levels of estrogens. This comes up time and again in research studies, including my own. I can't imagine this is helpful for recovery or body composition.
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Big Red wrote:
I don't know how much Pre drank, but his PR was about 13:22. His best rivals, Viren and Puttemans, ran 13:13. (Pre did beat Puttemans in Munich.) Maybe Pre woulda run under 13:20 if he didn't hit the beer?
Over here, I left high school with a best mile of 4:30; in four years of college the best I could do was a 1500 in 4:01. Maybe worth 10-11 seconds improvement. Why the lack of improvement??? In a word: Beer.
Walker, Dixon and Quax liked a beer. They did pretty well.
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Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
800 dude wrote:
It's hard to believe now, but twenty years ago, moderate drinking was actually considered healthier than abstinence. (It's now understood that moderate social drinking is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, which made earlier observational studies unreliable.).
It's not hard to believe, because up until very, very recently, virtually every large scale epidemiological study showed that moderate drinkers outlived abstainers.
Now, yes, there has been a recent spate of studies showing that there were some confounding factors not controlled for in those studies[ which will be true for all epidemiological studies]. Socioeconomic status was always controlled for but maybe not perfectly. More, they have realized that many abstainers didn't drink due to various health reasons.
However, the case is certainly not closed shut as you and many make it out to seem. These are still not gold standard, double blind, placebo controlled studies. Therefore they are certainly imperfect. And furthermore, some of these studies recently grabbing headlines absolutely exaggerated their results [ and/or the media did]. In many of the studies, there was very little difference between moderate drinkers longevity and abstainers, even when all of the newly controlled factors were plugged in. Some still showed potential heart health benefits.
One study out of mass general last year found direct link/ pathway to The potential heart health benefits of alcohol where alcohol reduces stress via the brain. This seem especially pronounced in those with higher levels of anxiety and and stress.
Lastly, the long-awaited new US dietary guidelines is still going to say that moderate drinkers outlive abstainers and that there are heart health benefits to moderate drinking.
"the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine (NASEM) released a report that was commissioned to inform the 2025 Dietary Guidelines. It found that, compared to people who never drank, moderate drinkers had lower all-cause mortality and a lower risk of death from cardiovascular disease."
[ now, yes, this is a bit controversial. As there are accusations of the authors being funded by alcohol industry. However.... They rely on some fairly strong studies to come to their conclusions].
Cheers! 🍻
One thing that I would ponder- are moderate drinkers more likely to be more social? There does seem to be a big link between living longer and being more social.
20 -
Somewhat ironic that the first failed drug test and disqualification in the Olympics was for alcohol
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