At what point is an “Ultramarathon” just a glorified hike?

As a lifelong ultrarunner I have to agree.

Ultrarunning has become a bucketlist item for very untalented folks. Yes there are some very good runners out there too but not to many.

Sounds like I hit a nerve there.

I will stop trolling for a minute: The fact of the matter is that if you can barely run a sub 3 marathon then you wont be able to run an ultra of any significant length.

As many have pointed out, most ultras are on rough terrain, but that just means that the ones signing up for the race should be able to handle the distance and terrain but most of them cant. The issue would be solved by stricter cut of times but the toxic positivity crowd would loose it and call it gatekeeping.

That sounds like the description of the majority of those who run NYC marathon.

To be fair, most who part take in big city marathons are not really "running". The majority is just jogging because they arent trained enough to run the distance. The slower tail of marathoners are actually hiking or walking depending on if the cut of time makes it possible for them. So its not just an ultra issue.

If you can’t run a sub 3 marathon you will most likely walk a mountain ultra. There are just not that many people with that ability. You can get mad at all the people going 5-7 hours in any big city marathon or just accept this is how long it takes some people.

If you drop the poles I'll consider taking your race seriously. Until then, happy hiking.

And I don't care if you do a 29min VK. Poles = DSQ.

Ex-track guy who's beginning to explore trail and ultra running.

I haven't really immersed myself in the scene yet, but this is my take as well. I've had people give me strange looks when I say, "Yeah, I run, or try to run, up the hills." Like, it's not even a consideration to them that it's possible to get fit enough to run up a steep grade for 20–30 minutes, it's entirely written off from the start.

On the flip side, going for 7+ hours is a completely different ballgame. Add a pack with water and snacks because you're unsupported and you're carrying a not insignificant amount of weight. A lot of the ultra and trail bashers here would get humbled very quickly after a few painful ascents and twisted ankles.

I mostly agree with the OP, but as others have mentioned, there are people "running" 5-6 hour times in pretty much any given marathon too. Go to a local 5k and you will see a ton of people completing it in > 30 minutes. Average finishing times are a lot slower than they were 20, 30 years ago across the board in basically every distance.

I do agree that ultra participants can be one of the more annoying flavors of "runners," though. Most average (non-running, or even runners who aren't serious) people don't realize that running a 32 min 10k is much much harder than slogging through 100k in 20 hours. Normies tend to think more distance = more effort = more talent. There's also a weird culture in ultras where a lot of people don't want to actually train properly, so they just "embrace the suck" and think gutting out stupid distances is some sort of accomplishment worth celebrating.

I agree it's a description that fits some of today's marathoners in general. I don't know that I'd go all the way to say it's a majority but maybe. You might even be able to say that about people in 5 kms.

I wonder if there was ever a vote on LR about deciding what pace is the threshold for running? It would be interesting. I vote 10 min pace as the minimum standard. Any slower and it’s something else.

Yeah, I would include enjoyability as part of the definition of hiking. If an ultramarathon is being run on a track, going round and round for hours, that's not enjoyable, that's not hiking. Eg:

bbc.com

Sri Chinmoy 24hr track race: Running around in circles for 24 hours

https://www.facebook.com/BBCSport/

In a quiet corner of London a small group of extraordinary runners complete laps of an athletics track for a day and a night. Why do they do it? And how far do they go?

Open link

Depends on the grade.

Running up a 20% grade at 15 min pace is moving. It's running if both feet are off the ground at the same time. Most non-trail people could not run in any capacity up that grade for more than a minute or two.

I believe you get the lion’s share of the aerobic benefits at a pace that’s twice as fast brisk walking. So, 10min is spot on.

This makes sense from a biological standpoint as it allowed out ancestors to make “double time” without burning too much energy.

Faster paces, other than flat out sprinting, don’t really have any utility other than for skinny little men to feel good about themselves.

I couple of nieces of mine and some friends of theirs "run" Bay to Breakers every year. They party the night before, then dress up in tutus etc for the race. They walk the whole thing because they can't run a step. Is Bay to Breakers not a legit race?

Who cares? I mean, really, who cares? How does it affect you that others are slow? I see some really bad golfers on the course but I would never think to say they aren't golfers because they can't shoot par or even bogey golf. Doesn't affect me in any way that others aren't elite at something they love doing.

Wasn't there a term that the 70s/80s ultra runners went by? Speedhiking? I'm not sure the exact name, but I swear I saw a video on it. The people in the video were pretty adamant that they were not traditional runners.

I saw one influencer post a hilarious crying video after the London Marathon this year where she blew up trying to run faster than her fitness. A week later she makes an "announcement" that she is done with marathons and is transitioning to the trails and ultra running because "pace doesn't matter" in that world. Oh, and she can "eat all the snacks"

I think the large amount of "ultra runners" mimic this influencer. Glorified power hikers. Takes away from the ones who are taking the training and the sport seriously.

The tip of the spear is the only part I pay attention to. There are a lot of interesting things happening in the nutrition and heat management areas of the sport when it comes to elites. Sure it's mostly copying the cycling world, but you can feel the progression.

One thing that stuck out to me around Western States this year was top runners who had breakout performances talking in interviews about how they started testing their sweat volume and how much salt they are sweating within the last year or so.

The M4, Jeff Mogavero had been going through his career ingesting about 25% of the salt content he was sweating and was consistently having GI problems in longer races. He fixed that and had two really good 100 milers in a row. He now has the fastest debut WSER time and is a guy that you could see winning next year.

Very similar story with F1, Abby Hall. She had a history of good 100k performances, but struggles at 100 milers. She fixed the salt/sweat thing in the last year and ran aggressively for the result of her life.

Both Abby and Jeff ran massive miles in the leadup, maybe tops in both fields so base fitness matters a lot, but getting the nutritional balance right combined with racing aggressively is completely changing the top of the sport.