As much as it pains to me say it, I agree with briguy. Its time to let it go.
It's already late August. I can't imagine it would be possible to plan out and set up 4 large regional meets and a national meet before the end of November. And the regional qualification is the most important part - if they try to make an invitational then the claim of being a 'true' national championship is hollow.
NXN is the true national championship now (and has been for a few years if you ask me). Nothing will really change that for the time being. Trying to resurrect Footlocker just to keep it on life support is just delaying the inevitable.
There is no True HS championship - ALL are strictly invitationals. The only way (and it will never happen) it could happen would be direct advancement from State championships. Ideally (like most other countries) there is a viable age-group championship (U20/U18). This would have been a good year with the trials for the national team on the slate. This obsession with HS championships is bizarre, when the HS associations are not directly involved. This is the same for indoor track and outdoor track.
As much as it pains to me say it, I agree with briguy. Its time to let it go.
It's already late August. I can't imagine it would be possible to plan out and set up 4 large regional meets and a national meet before the end of November. And the regional qualification is the most important part - if they try to make an invitational then the claim of being a 'true' national championship is hollow.
NXN is the true national championship now (and has been for a few years if you ask me). Nothing will really change that for the time being. Trying to resurrect Footlocker just to keep it on life support is just delaying the inevitable.
There is no True HS championship - ALL are strictly invitationals. The only way (and it will never happen) it could happen would be direct advancement from State championships. Ideally (like most other countries) there is a viable age-group championship (U20/U18). This would have been a good year with the trials for the national team on the slate. This obsession with HS championships is bizarre, when the HS associations are not directly involved. This is the same for indoor track and outdoor track.
We had heard a group of people (some with connections to the San Diego running community, e.g. Sundlun; some with ties to Foot Locker, e.g. Torres) were organizing to try to save the race.
What do you think about pressuring Foot Locker to turn over the IP of the race to this group? If Foot Locker really cares about the greater running world, it should want this legacy of the sport to be preserved. If the new group can't pull it off - RIP.
This thing could easily be a celebration of running in the US every year, culminating with the high school race. Sundlun has great experience founding the Rock ‘n’ Roll Marathons. He’s also good at getting sponsors (he was in charge of the World Road Running Champs, which got canceled, but he had secured a multi-million-dollar sponsor - very rare in our sport). HOKA was a good sponsor recently.
Or even say "this will be the last one ever." I'd turn up for the first time, just for the history.
Wasn’t Sundlun one of the people responsible for the road world championships being removed from San Diego? Does not exactly inspire confidence in this effort….
NXN has grown in popularity, while FL has shrunk. I think the main draw of NXN is the team concept keeps more people interested. If FL were to embrace that concept it might be able to rival NXN if for no other reason than the weather in San Diego is typically better than Oregon. Not sure if Balboa park can support a larger race.
As much as it pains to me say it, I agree with briguy. Its time to let it go.
It's already late August. I can't imagine it would be possible to plan out and set up 4 large regional meets and a national meet before the end of November. And the regional qualification is the most important part - if they try to make an invitational then the claim of being a 'true' national championship is hollow.
NXN is the true national championship now (and has been for a few years if you ask me). Nothing will really change that for the time being. Trying to resurrect Footlocker just to keep it on life support is just delaying the inevitable.
I think that if a sponsor was brought in relatively quickly, the race can happen this year. The infrastructure is in place, every regional race has a race director and knows what to do. Possible hurdles; securing park permits and hotels. Would there be an issue getting some of the "rights" from FL? They are giving it up, it won't be named Footlocker, so, not sure what Intellectual Property they are trying to collect money on.
As a side, it wouldn't be the dumbest idea for Nike to also sponsor the event. It would be like Coke, with owning other brands and crowding out Pepsi and others for shelf space, so anything you buy is still money in their pocket. (i.e., they own Fuze Tea, Honest Tea, Gold Peak Tea). Have the teams go to NXN and the individual go to FL, space them out a bit more. At every turn, the kids are indoctrinated with Nike gear at an early age.
Tracy/Jorge, call me. :-)
I think timeline is a huge hurdle. You don't just need to have things ready in November when the meets are about to happen, they need to be ready when athletes and coaches are planning out their seasons - so, essentially now, or at least in the next few weeks.
The idea of Nike sponsoring this kind of is the dumbest idea. They have zero incentive to do so. Their biggest competitor in this (small) market just folded, and they've essentially been handed 100% market share.
There is no reason whatsoever to split the teams and the individuals. Many of the best individuals are part of the best teams. It just dilutes the races for no reason at all.
NXN has grown in popularity, while FL has shrunk. I think the main draw of NXN is the team concept keeps more people interested. If FL were to embrace that concept it might be able to rival NXN if for no other reason than the weather in San Diego is typically better than Oregon. Not sure if Balboa park can support a larger race.
I think Balbo could have a team race. They have road races with a few thousand competitors starting from the park and hs meets there.
As much as it pains to me say it, I agree with briguy. Its time to let it go.
It's already late August. I can't imagine it would be possible to plan out and set up 4 large regional meets and a national meet before the end of November. And the regional qualification is the most important part - if they try to make an invitational then the claim of being a 'true' national championship is hollow.
NXN is the true national championship now (and has been for a few years if you ask me). Nothing will really change that for the time being. Trying to resurrect Footlocker just to keep it on life support is just delaying the inevitable.
There is no True HS championship - ALL are strictly invitationals. The only way (and it will never happen) it could happen would be direct advancement from State championships. Ideally (like most other countries) there is a viable age-group championship (U20/U18). This would have been a good year with the trials for the national team on the slate. This obsession with HS championships is bizarre, when the HS associations are not directly involved. This is the same for indoor track and outdoor track.
Not a Nike shill, just describing the lay of the land as I see it.
Obviously there when I say "true" national championship I'm not talking about in the organizational sense, I'm talking about defacto - which championship is getting the absolute best of the best into one race. With 2-3 separate championships, none of them were getting all of the best - but Nike was doing it better than FL in recent years.
Not sure its entirely accurate to call NXN or FL invitationals since there is a placing-based qualification process in place. But yes, it exists outside of USATF if that's what you mean
HS associations will never get directly involved. Way too much coordination among 50 organizations, many of them as dysfunctional as USATF in their own right.
Not sure I see the point of a U18 champs separate from a U20 race. But combining USATF's U20 race with NXN's existing infrastructure is as good of a solution as we're gonna get at this point.
NXN has grown in popularity, while FL has shrunk. I think the main draw of NXN is the team concept keeps more people interested. If FL were to embrace that concept it might be able to rival NXN if for no other reason than the weather in San Diego is typically better than Oregon. Not sure if Balboa park can support a larger race.
Agreed, the team race is the best part of NXN. I pretty much immediately lose interest in the FL race once the first 5 or so runners roll in. But a team race like NXN holds your attention for much longer and creates some really great dramatic moments like when Bozeman upset American Fork.
Cross country is a team sport after all. Don't see any reason why a national championship shouldn't reflect that.
One of the big things about FL going away is for the California kids. You go to the state meet, and there is no nxn regional. Obviously if you are one of the couple teams that qualifies via the state meet great, but that is a very small group of kids. FL west was pretty well attended that I’ve seen from being there. NXN gets thousands of kids, with no chance of going to Portland. I guess it would be running lane, but who’s gonna spend money on that if you are just an average kid looking for one last race.
The group behind the West regional sent out information yesterday they are still planning on hosting a similar series of races this year. I'm assuming the other 3 regional meet directors could also put that together pretty quickly. The national meet is the more difficult one.
The group behind the West regional sent out information yesterday they are still planning on hosting a similar series of races this year. I'm assuming the other 3 regional meet directors could also put that together pretty quickly.
The national meet is the more difficult one.
Why difficult? It's only 80 runners, one hotel, two races. Very doable IF they get a sponsor in time.
NXN has grown in popularity, while FL has shrunk. I think the main draw of NXN is the team concept keeps more people interested. If FL were to embrace that concept it might be able to rival NXN if for no other reason than the weather in San Diego is typically better than Oregon. Not sure if Balboa park can support a larger race.
Agreed, the team race is the best part of NXN. I pretty much immediately lose interest in the FL race once the first 5 or so runners roll in. But a team race like NXN holds your attention for much longer
"Much" longer? Actually for just one minute longer. Let's not exaggerate.
NXN has grown in popularity, while FL has shrunk. I think the main draw of NXN is the team concept keeps more people interested. If FL were to embrace that concept it might be able to rival NXN if for no other reason than the weather in San Diego is typically better than Oregon. Not sure if Balboa park can support a larger race.
I think Balbo could have a team race. They have road races with a few thousand competitors starting from the park and hs meets there.
No, Balboa Park can't have a cross country national team race.
The "road races" at Balboa Park are (wait for it) on THE ROAD, not on the cross country course. I have no idea why you would imagine that a road race has anything to do with a cross country race.
The local high school xc meets have a ton of slow kids. Those races are very strung out in the first minute, so you can fit lots of local kids on that course. In a national race they all stick together, and 40 runners in one pack is already a tight squeeze on that course. It's too skinny in many spots. No way you could fit 200 runners on the Balboa Park course like you can at NXN.
Tracy Sundlun lives in San Diego I believe. It would be great if he saved it. Balboa Park Course and the Kids stayed at the famous Coronado hotel on the beach!
We had heard a group of people (some with connections to the San Diego running community, e.g. Sundlun; some with ties to Foot Locker, e.g. Torres) were organizing to try to save the race.
What do you think about pressuring Foot Locker to turn over the IP of the race to this group? If Foot Locker really cares about the greater running world, it should want this legacy of the sport to be preserved. If the new group can't pull it off - RIP.
This thing could easily be a celebration of running in the US every year, culminating with the high school race. Sundlun has great experience founding the Rock ‘n’ Roll Marathons. He’s also good at getting sponsors (he was in charge of the World Road Running Champs, which got canceled, but he had secured a multi-million-dollar sponsor - very rare in our sport). HOKA was a good sponsor recently.
Or even say "this will be the last one ever." I'd turn up for the first time, just for the history.
Wasn’t Sundlun one of the people responsible for the road world championships being removed from San Diego? Does not exactly inspire confidence in this effort….
Yes he was. But I think there was more to the story than just the SD organizing committee bailing. Maybe someone can chime in?