Don’t forget Grant was an accomplished soccer player who switched over - not one of the kids being forced to run at an early age by an overbearing parent - these crossover success stories aren’t typically the big mileage folks
Kipchoge as a marathoner was peaking around 120-130, only like 30% more mileage for an event 420% longer. Also Nico is 23 and training at 7k feet. Also doing double threshold. Jakob gets up to 110-120 during the offseason, though he’s an outlier so far as 15/5 guys go.
I’m sure there’s room for Nico to get better, but that’s more because he shouldn’t hit his peak for another 3-5 years. Also keep in mind he’s peaking at 80-90 and making massive improvements. Pushing it up to 100-120mpw might end with him getting injured, which would probably slow his progression.
Keep telling yourself that. Nico is maxed out. I don’t think he is going to get faster at any distance including 10k, where at his height we start to see diminishing returns. I think he has pushed himself to his limit and after this season we will see him on the injury list for the next several years and then he’ll be an after thought. My God you people are such prisoners of the moment that it’s actually funny.
Are you always this rude to people you don't know or are you just brave because you are anonymous?
Just adding here, Jakob is kind of a special case since he has had a huge mileage since a young age. And by huge mileage I mean relative to his age at that point. He also started competing very young.
Oh for sure, I meant to add that in my post, because Jakob has been training at a high level for so long. Nico is special in the US because he's had such great training since he was 14, but Jakob was getting that since age 9, and didn't spent 4 years in the NCAA. Given Mike Smith's commitment to Nico's long term development, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's just slowly upping Nico's mileage and he'll peak at 100 mpw in a year or two. But at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if that's about the max mileage Nico will do until he maybe moves to the roads. He's already a "12:45 with a huge kick" guy, which is not far off of gold medal ability (it might be indicative of that already tbh, we'll see), so if he keeps improving at his current mileage, there's no reason to up it.
Keep telling yourself that. Nico is maxed out. I don’t think he is going to get faster at any distance including 10k, where at his height we start to see diminishing returns. I think he has pushed himself to his limit and after this season we will see him on the injury list for the next several years and then he’ll be an after thought. My God you people are such prisoners of the moment that it’s actually funny.
The thing is, I don't know if it matters too much if Nico is already maxed out. It's like saying Lutkenhaus is maxed out. Like even if it is true, they're already at the medalist level. They don't need to get better, they just need to get to the point they're at now consistently for the next few years. Oftentimes, winning medals is more a function of showing up in great shape year after year than it is about showing up one year in incredible shape.
I never bet on athletes getting stuck in the injury cycle, but I do always keep in mind that nothing in this sport is guaranteed. It's like the old saying, "You never know when you're gonna trip over your dog and have a career ending injury". After things like Jakob's 3k or indoor 15/mile WRs, or Cooper's 1:42, or Nico's 12:45, I normally say we should all take a moment to really appreciate the performance we just witnessed, exactly because you never know when it'll end. I don't think I'd call myself a prisoner of the moment, I think I'd say I choose to live in the moment, while remaining optimistic about the future, and appreciative of the past.
Cheptegei was in the 90 MPW range as well when he was running on the track.
Also we don't know what athletes are counting as mileage. Some don't even include warmups/cooldowns as part of their mileage, which could easily add 15-20 MPW to the total.
with 30 miles cross training equivalent (aerobic /anaerobic/strength) value.
will do the trick.
if you ate going really well you can easily add in 20 miles slow, but it is suggested that is folly if you want to optimize fast twitch.
still the response is individual.
coaching should focus on markers red flags to indicate overbaking.
and part of the yearly needs to focus on fast twitch and body building techniques with only maintenance aerobic, with recovery, and freshess. you know, become a mental baby like the spronters, without heroics.
This really isn't that crazy. It's not like he's a marathoner or anything. 80-90 seems plenty, on top of all cross training and just genuine smart training.
the body building is "of course" focused on running related muscles that are subject to catabolization with hour long runs.
id do this muscle build phase before the base mileage / threshold phase. then in the pre race phase, readapt where the natural speed comes back readily and enhanced.
as opposed to try and get your speed chops up in a month,
basically, you need to set your 400 m PR is early 20s.
before hitting a body building phase your muscles cant be chronically fatigued, so three weeks off might be required first, likevlight rinning light athletic activity.
and the diet would be a lot of protein. nothing crazy.
the weights would be sets warmup at 50 percentvmax x 10 and two sets of 80 % max to failure.
if the muscles dont feel right in the warmup reps, skip the max to failure and come back another day
you would do 3 gym workouts per week, spacing the different muscle groups by 3 days.
also, once you have a big engine, say, from being very active generally in youth and perhap going through six 12 month build up phases, you should not need more than 8 weeks build up into the future, through memory the adaptation to full aerobic fitness is much quicker, and more weeks is a distinct waste of time.
this is not to say that the proposal is as good or better than jacob fisher hocker type programs, where i am a student.
none the less, i am seeing a great common denominator.
from the mix, with self taught or mentored people considering stuff like this, comes the new state of the art, through trial and disaster which is error.
this stuff is largely based on other coaches, but the novelty in using body build cross training, that is being done anyway widely, but as far as i can tell, very haphard and without considering the principles involved.
and the basic principle is to add slight muscle mass that has been catabolized, due to the fact that the body adapts to the activity, and with plasticity, the expression of fast twitch can and should be done periodically, else in your prime years you will get slughtly slower, yearly.
It’s 80-90, probably closer to 80, in six days. It seems like a lot of people in this thread haven’t even listened to the interview at all. He goes through his progression through high school to pro. The mileage is a bit more consistent now but was inconsistent in the past. Every Sunday is an off day. People in this thread are talking about cross training. It’s just running. Nico doesn’t cross train. Listen to the interview.