Used to love Jake but can’t help but feel irritated by him recently. Dropping out of yet another British Champs (but then posting a video of him doing hill reps the day after? - crazy). He’ll get picked for sure, it was actually in his best interest to not run the trial as soon as Mills said he wasn’t going to do the 1500 as Wightman had nothing to gain from running. It sucks it works that way but British Athletics are a terrible organisation
That was such an odd race by Fogg - what is going on with him? he should have absolutely no problem getting to British finals. i wonder where he goes from here
I'm a fan but he has had a habit of looking like he's not far from the world's best in some good fields and getting beat by some ordinary runners in weaker fields. There's clearly talent there but it feels like his best asset is his ability to get dragged to fast performances, with his 4th at Millrose being the ultimate example.
I think he'd benefit from a few dominant performances at BMC races or similar to get a feel for being the class of the field.
If he's fit, Wightman will be selected in the 1500. He won't be going in the 800, there's others with the standard.
However, the selection for the British men's 800 team has the potential to be an absolute sh1tshow. Burgin is assured, but the 2nd and 3rd placers at the champs don't have the standard. You then have a few guys who have the standard like Callum Elson, Henry Jonas, and Ben Pattison. Pattison has been awful all year and then pulled the standard out of his arse in Budapest after he stunk out the British champs. I guess he will be selected on that basis and as a former World's and Commonwealth medallist. I'd then take Henry Jonas but he's young and UKA likes to hold back young athletes (Keely Hodgkinson almost didn't go to Tokyo in 2021). It would be really funny of Botterill and Crorkan picked up the standard before the selection meeting just to really make it a mess for selectors.
That's absurd. Wightman was only 4 tenths behind Hocker at Pre and beat Kessler. Gourley always does enough even if he tends to sh1t the bed in finals. There'll be at least three Brits in the semis and probably two in the final
We’ll see. Gourley was in much better form last year even with the truncated season. I’m usually high on him, but he’s flunked the eye test all year. Wightman we’ll see if he makes it in form, he races twice in 3 days here. Giles, not holding out much hope.
As for the wild card thing, it becomes even crazier when you consider the UK already gives a wild card to medalists. I assume they give the extra national spot for “fairness” but discretionary wild cards are unfair if you want to go that route.
Does anyone know what is going on with Jake Heyward? Has he quit the sport?
He hasn't raced since 2023 but he was good enough in 2022 to get silver in the Europeans behind Jakob and run a 3:31. I had high hopes for the lad.
Yes, it's strange. I can't find any reference to him online since early 2023. It's like he disappeared off the face of the Earth. He even stopped posting on Twitter at that time. He was attempting to come back from injury as of February 2023.
If he's fit, Wightman will be selected in the 1500. He won't be going in the 800, there's others with the standard.
However, the selection for the British men's 800 team has the potential to be an absolute sh1tshow. Burgin is assured, but the 2nd and 3rd placers at the champs don't have the standard. You then have a few guys who have the standard like Callum Elson, Henry Jonas, and Ben Pattison. Pattison has been awful all year and then pulled the standard out of his arse in Budapest after he stunk out the British champs. I guess he will be selected on that basis and as a former World's and Commonwealth medallist. I'd then take Henry Jonas but he's young and UKA likes to hold back young athletes (Keely Hodgkinson almost didn't go to Tokyo in 2021). It would be really funny of Botterill and Crorkan picked up the standard before the selection meeting just to really make it a mess for selectors.
Edward Wightman (1566 – 11 April 1612) was an English radical Anabaptist minister, executed at Lichfield on charges of heresy; he was the last person to be burned at the stake in England for such a crime. Life Edward Wightman...
That's absurd. Wightman was only 4 tenths behind Hocker at Pre and beat Kessler. Gourley always does enough even if he tends to sh1t the bed in finals. There'll be at least three Brits in the semis and probably two in the final
We’ll see. Gourley was in much better form last year even with the truncated season. I’m usually high on him, but he’s flunked the eye test all year. Wightman we’ll see if he makes it in form, he races twice in 3 days here. Giles, not holding out much hope.
As for the wild card thing, it becomes even crazier when you consider the UK already gives a wild card to medalists. I assume they give the extra national spot for “fairness” but discretionary wild cards are unfair if you want to go that route.
That's not quite right. Medallists don't get pre-selected, but it weighs heavily in their favour for the third, discretionary spot. Medallists are still supposed to prove form and fitness.
On the World Champs wild cards: I'm fine with them. It makes sense to have defending champs back at the next event. It does occasionally lead to instances like Brazier in 2022, who was obviously not fit to compete, but the principle of having a defending champs there by right is something that exists in most individual sports.
I hope not. I hate to see someone get rewarded for tactically skipping the UK Trials. He did the same thing last year. Knows he's not going to have a good showing, comes up with an excuse not to race and crosses his fingers that the selectors gamble on him over someone else who went to the trials and had a bad day. Others are punished for showing up and racing and he's rewarded for sitting at home.
You can only blame the 1500m scene in the UK disintegrating in absurd fashion. Kerr might be the only guy to make the semi. Not sure what UK Athletics should do, and it’s not like World Athletics can strip the extra slot and give it to the US who has the last global champ and 5 guys who would smoke UKs no. 2 at this point.
Interesting.
If we go by the best times of the season, UK #2 is faster than US #1.
Also, surprisingly, if we look at the top 7 fastest times of the season per country, the US is not the fastest country. Nor is Kenya.
If he's fit, Wightman will be selected in the 1500. He won't be going in the 800, there's others with the standard.
However, the selection for the British men's 800 team has the potential to be an absolute sh1tshow. Burgin is assured, but the 2nd and 3rd placers at the champs don't have the standard. You then have a few guys who have the standard like Callum Elson, Henry Jonas, and Ben Pattison. Pattison has been awful all year and then pulled the standard out of his arse in Budapest after he stunk out the British champs. I guess he will be selected on that basis and as a former World's and Commonwealth medallist. I'd then take Henry Jonas but he's young and UKA likes to hold back young athletes (Keely Hodgkinson almost didn't go to Tokyo in 2021). It would be really funny of Botterill and Crorkan picked up the standard before the selection meeting just to really make it a mess for selectors.
Elsons a million miles away from making a team - 1:49 & 3:38 - weve got much faster juniors
Pattison - lads been injured all summer. ran the british finals with bad guts (couldve pussied out like Wightman). hes coming back to form and has ran as fast as the other lads standard. hes getting faster every week, the other lads are over there peak and declining
the others with 800m time -
Hussey - got lucky getting lane in London diamond league, poor rest of season.
Jonas - great talent, not ready yet.
Dodds - rougue character. time trial merchant
Davies - would take, medalled at u23s, been strong all season, had a stinker at the trials
Croken - 2nd at trials, not on startlist for Tooting, appears to have given up
Does anyone know what is going on with Jake Heyward? Has he quit the sport?
He hasn't raced since 2023 but he was good enough in 2022 to get silver in the Europeans behind Jakob and run a 3:31. I had high hopes for the lad.
Yes, it's strange. I can't find any reference to him online since early 2023. It's like he disappeared off the face of the Earth. He even stopped posting on Twitter at that time. He was attempting to come back from injury as of February 2023.
If we go by the best times of the season, UK #2 is faster than US #1.
Also, surprisingly, if we look at the top 7 fastest times of the season per country, the US is not the fastest country. Nor is Kenya.
Has been established that Mills isn’t contesting the 1500. Grant Fisher similarly doesn’t count even though he’d beat Gourley or Giles currently. Top 7 seems like an arbitrary cutoff…I’m assuming France’s #7 or something has a fast time trial time.
Wightman has just posted he is running the 800m at Tooting BMC on Wednesday and the 1500m at Brussels Diamond League on Friday.
Presumably he has been asked by UKA to prove form and will be given a discretionary pick for the World Championships if he gives a good showing this week. I would much rather see him in the 1500m rather than 800m but it may be politically easier to give him the 800m selection.
What's the betting something goes wrong with him after Tooting and pulls out of Brussels?
If we go by the best times of the season, UK #2 is faster than US #1.
Also, surprisingly, if we look at the top 7 fastest times of the season per country, the US is not the fastest country. Nor is Kenya.
Has been established that Mills isn’t contesting the 1500. Grant Fisher similarly doesn’t count even though he’d beat Gourley or Giles currently. Top 7 seems like an arbitrary cutoff…I’m assuming France’s #7 or something has a fast time trial time.
Can you list your top 5 Americans?
So Mills doesn't count, but you have five Americans that do count? That seems a bit biased to me.
Presumably Hoey is one of your top 5? Did he even compete in the 1500 trials?
I don't think we can say the UK 1500m scene has disintegrated with Kerr in excellent shape (we know he doesn't like to compete much outside of champs), Wightman really fit with 2:13-14 time trial and a former World gold medalist, and Mills running insanely well, 3:28.36 in Paris and 12:46.59 in Oslo in an eight-day stretch in June, plus 7:27 3k indoors. In fact, when has it been better? You have at least three sub-3:30 guys, two have gone sub 3:29 in the past year, and Wightman did go 3:31 in London, which was not great but he certainly has the talent to go 3:28-29 this year.
Top seven is arbitrary in track. True that France's no. 7 shockingly is .06 faster than the U.S. seventh (Ciattei, 3:31.69), but France has ten sub 3:34 whereas the U.S. has 21. Kenya has four sub-3:30, which is more relevant for medal possibilities. Still, a lot of the Americans haven't been racing fast circuit races in Europe, so we have only seen Hoey's 3:29 at Ostrava. Koech is surely a sub 3:29 guy and Hocker will do that as well. Not sure if Kessler will have a late season resurgence. What happened with him leaving Ron Warhurst?
If he's fit, Wightman will be selected in the 1500. He won't be going in the 800, there's others with the standard.
However, the selection for the British men's 800 team has the potential to be an absolute sh1tshow. Burgin is assured, but the 2nd and 3rd placers at the champs don't have the standard. You then have a few guys who have the standard like Callum Elson, Henry Jonas, and Ben Pattison. Pattison has been awful all year and then pulled the standard out of his arse in Budapest after he stunk out the British champs. I guess he will be selected on that basis and as a former World's and Commonwealth medallist. I'd then take Henry Jonas but he's young and UKA likes to hold back young athletes (Keely Hodgkinson almost didn't go to Tokyo in 2021). It would be really funny of Botterill and Crorkan picked up the standard before the selection meeting just to really make it a mess for selectors.
Elsons a million miles away from making a team - 1:49 & 3:38 - weve got much faster juniors
Pattison - lads been injured all summer. ran the british finals with bad guts (couldve pussied out like Wightman). hes coming back to form and has ran as fast as the other lads standard. hes getting faster every week, the other lads are over there peak and declining
the others with 800m time -
Hussey - got lucky getting lane in London diamond league, poor rest of season.
Jonas - great talent, not ready yet.
Dodds - rougue character. time trial merchant
Davies - would take, medalled at u23s, been strong all season, had a stinker at the trials
Croken - 2nd at trials, not on startlist for Tooting, appears to have given up
Crorkan has got the standard! He ran 1:44.48 in Germany. He's on the team. That leaves only the discretionary spot which will go to Pattison as a former medallist and based on his last two races. Burgin, Crorkan, and Pattison, pretty good team. Should get all three to the semis, probably only Burgin in the final unless Pattison finds another level
I don't think we can say the UK 1500m scene has disintegrated with Kerr in excellent shape (we know he doesn't like to compete much outside of champs), Wightman really fit with 2:13-14 time trial and a former World gold medalist, and Mills running insanely well, 3:28.36 in Paris and 12:46.59 in Oslo in an eight-day stretch in June, plus 7:27 3k indoors. In fact, when has it been better? You have at least three sub-3:30 guys, two have gone sub 3:29 in the past year, and Wightman did go 3:31 in London, which was not great but he certainly has the talent to go 3:28-29 this year.
Agreed. 3 years ago things were pretty insane and you could even argue we had more depth than the 80's. Unfortunately, two of the young talents have had chronic injury problems and Gourley and Wightman have got a bit older and had their injury problems too If it wasn't for Pharmwell Koech, it would pale in comparison to Kenya's 'disintegration' from a few years ago, but ThoughtsLeader doesn't want to talk about that.
Btw, the next fastest Kenyan after Wanyonyi this year is Chepkwony in 15th. There are only four Kenyans in the 50 fastest 800m times this season. If it wasn't for Beradelli (and the protected Faith), the athletics coach with more busted runners than any other in history, Kenyan middle-distance would be in an apalling state
Meanwhile, here is Wightman's post-race interview.