Why do old guys insist that Michael Jordan was the best when clearly Lebron has passed him?

I agree that MJ is the GOAT. LeBron not being top 10 is ridiculous—he’s obviously greater than Kobe. Kobe is the one who’s often overrated and I’m not sure belongs in the top 10 (he probably does though, but 8-10 range).

Brons defense is underrated, IMO

Bron wins due to his insane longevity and success against a MUCH higher level of competition

This ^

Anyone who thinks that Lebron is as good as or better than Jordan never saw MJ play. Or else simply doesn't understand basketball.

Lebron is an all-time great. No doubt about it. But his real claim to fame is that he has played at a very high level for a very long time. That's great for accumulating career stats. But it is irrelevant when talking about who was best during their prime.

Ask guys like Bobby Knight or Coach K, guys who understand basketball at a level you could never even dream of and who saw both athletes in their primes.

Is the GOAT about a few peak years or do we give credit to huge production and longevity?

If Jordan only played 1 year we obviously wouldn’t consider him the GOAT

Put it this way. LeBron has about 4 HoF careers’ worth of stats and accolades.

So Lebron is just like Trump then? Tell the truth, you just don't like Lebron's politics is all.

MUCH higher level of competition?

One knock against that statement is that, for his career before the Lakers, Lebron's teams played in the East. The East was significantly inferior to the depth and competition in the West for most of those years. Just look at the Win/Loss standings differences over those years. And the lopsided balance of power as seen through the standings was achieved by the West playing the East only two times each, while the West played the West four times each.

Teams in the West had to scratch and claw and fight their way to the finals, beginning in round one. A couple of injuries and you were dropping in the standings or not advancing in the playoffs. Lebron's teams had more room for error, a drop in standings was not as detrimental, and often rounds one and two of the playoffs were, as some joked, the equivalent to a bye.

To give an extreme example, imagine playing the best opponents the league has to offer every game, vs playing the worst teams every game. What team is going to have a better record, what player is going to face inferior defenses, have the better stats, less wear and tear on the body, etc.? In any professional sport, check out a teams record vs winning teams against their record vs loosing teams. Its a HUGE difference. Facing better competition, you tend to loose more, miss more, go to the well more, etc. It's just harder.

This situation most likely aided in Lebron's outstanding and unprecedented longevity, and contributed to Kobe's wear and tear, injuries, and productivity/efficiency.

Top teams in the East often made the finals and then lost the championship to the West. Most top teams in the West didn't even make the finals, because only one can go.

Jordan played duriing expansion when the NBA was weak.

LBJ is anti white

They fix some of the games by for example sticking a chump on LeBron and letting him go on a heater. They do this because advertisers don't want to pay big bucks for dead games. It's probably even in the small print using legalese.

It;s the same reasoning behind the USA companies trying to change football by making bigger goals. Cos the audience get bored easily and can't understand how you can have a draw.

And companies can't have a game that goes 45 minutes without an advert because they have to sell chubsters more pizza.

They’re very different players. LeBron is the Swiss Army knife of basketball. He can do it all very well. However, MJ was a machete that just couldn’t be stopped to cut opponents down. So the goat argument has to really be narrowed to specifics. It’s like comparing EL G to Kipchoge. Yes, they both are great distance runners but their skill sets and accomplishments are very different.

No one ever saw Jordan, Magic, or Bird give up in any game. Ever. But LeBron, pampered wuss that he is, has given up, more than once when the going got tough. He is not a true champion. He’s an egomaniacal punk.

It's more than just numbers- it's persona and aura- it's the ability to count on him with 99.99% certainty when the game is on the line.

There might be some merit to that. I’ve heard the same argument for Novak outlasting the other big three to become the undisputed tennis GOAT. Personally I would still go with MJ though because Lebrons stat padding still can’t compare to MJs achievements.

When Lebron can bat .150 in the minor leagues, I'll agree.

N o serious basketball fan puts Jordan higher anymore unless they are being intellectually dishonest.

Kobe is better than Lebron and it's not even close, and with all due respect, it's completely absurd to suggest he is overated. Kobe had no weaknesses, while Lebron has plenty. Kobe can shoot better (both mid and long range), better handles, better offensive moves, better with clutch game winning shots, better at free throws, better defender, better killer attitude. If a game is on the line, you want the ball in Kobe's hands. Lebron is likely to dribble the ball off of his foot or shoot an air ball. The only thing Lebron has over Kobe is passing.

Yes, some consideration is given to longevity, but not all consideration like you are ridiculously suggesting, with all due respect.

The only thing Kobe was better at was free throws. LeBron is better at literally everything else. They aren’t even in the same conversation.

He was better shooting 3s than Jordan but not LeBron.