At the same time he was heavy. Before Farah went to Al Sal, he was competing at 58kg and had no muscle tone. Under Al Sal at age 27 came the bespoke strength programme, through which he went down to 52kg
At the same time he was heavy. Before Farah went to Al Sal, he was competing at 58kg and had no muscle tone. Under Al Sal at age 27 came the bespoke strength programme, through which he went down to 52kg
He is/was listed at 5' 9'' 128lbs.
At no point did he race at 52kg/114lb.
Do better.
That's straight from his strength coach's mouth there fella
At the same time he was heavy. Before Farah went to Al Sal, he was competing at 58kg and had no muscle tone. Under Al Sal at age 27 came the bespoke strength programme, through which he went down to 52kg
He is/was listed at 5' 9'' 128lbs.
At no point did he race at 52kg/114lb.
Do better.
Just based on the eye test he’s definitely closer to 114lbs compared to 128lbs. He’s very, very thin, almost stick-like.
no disrespect intended, but there's a chepetgei era?
2017: silver
2019: Gold
2021: silver
2022: gold
2023 : gold
2024: gold
Fair, but his inability to win the double means that he doesn't climb into the conversation with Geb, Bekele, and Farah. And he's only really been close to it once. I know Geb didn't either, but he ran when the 10000 still had heats
I knew doping would be mentioned early on. I don't have much to say since it's mostly speculation, but I suppose it's plausible, especially since Farah is the outlier and probably has the most doping allegations. We'll never know for real.
This thread reads like some kind of discussion you'd read in a WWE fan forum. The difference is that most of the posters discussing why Hulk Hogan 'could never beat X' or whatever, would have an average age of 13.
"Speculation"..."suppose it's plausible".
Well any suggested answer to your original question is speculation. If you don't think doping is a rational element of any objective answer then I don't know what to say.
As far as Farah is concerned, he moved in with a group of Kenyans in London when he was an also-ran at age 24 or 25 and discovered their "secret sauce". Instantly, he became the dominant distance runner in GB. Then he moved to the USA under Sleazy Sal and started getting his injections, though he still can't remember what they were, and immediately became a candidate for GOAT. Along the way, he 'couldn't hear the doorbell' when testers called, and posted an Instagram photo of himself training under Jama Aden in remotest Epiopia, then denied he had ever met Aden. Then there was the time when Geb and Farah had a falling out to do with Farah using his gym or something, and Geb subtly threatened to spill the beans on his EPO use.
I knew doping would be mentioned early on. I don't have much to say since it's mostly speculation, but I suppose it's plausible, especially since Farah is the outlier and probably has the most doping allegations. We'll never know for real.
I would say that Bekele and Geb retired from the track simply because they couldn't win anymore. Both lost two championships on the track before just moving completely to the roads (with Geb making a short return to the track for 2008 Olympics). Both had successful road careers. Chep seems to be retiring from the track because of a lack of motivation to win more on the track, and p..robably because there is more money on the roads.
In terms of overlap, the 2003 Paris Worlds 10k was probably the best prime v prime matchup between the 10k GOATs. That was Bekele's first title, and Geb was a close silver in the twilight of his track career. Keep in mind, the 2003 World Champs also had the 5k with Kipchoge, El Guerrouj and Bekele. Quite an amazing championship that year.
The 2017 London Worlds 10k was another great prime v prime with Farah winning his last title, and a 20-yr-old (supposedly) Cheptegei getting silver.
But both of these examples were matchups where we had one GOAT close to the end of his track career, and one at the beginning.
Crazy we never saw a true prime v prime with Bekele and Farah.
If anybody can think of any great races between these guys outside of the championships and Great North Run, let me know.
Geb in 2003 was past his track prime. The last year where he still looked unbeatable was in 1999. In 2000 Olympics he had a close win against Tergat (if Tergat hadn´t been boxed with 250 to go he would probably have won) and in 2001 WC he lost to Kamathi.
Yes, that's an interesting observation! Regarding Kenenisa Bekele and Mo Farah — both really competed at the highest level around the same time. Bekele, of course, was dominant in long-distance running.
When you think of the greats of our sport, you really come across 4 distinct eras in the 10k. Cheptegei, Farah, Bekele, Gebreselassie. These four have had their own share of dominating the event. You'd think that Bekele is much older than Farah. But, in reality, Bekele is only 1 year older.
Despite the closeness in age, we never really saw a true prime Bekele v prime Farah on the track in a championship. In championship races won by Bekele, Farah never was better than 6th (2007 5000m). In championship races won by Farah, Bekele DNFed (2011 10k) and was 4th (2012 10k). The 2012 10k is the closest we get, but it's hard to argue that was prime Bekele; he hadn't won a title since 2009 at the time.
I highly doubt age cheating comes into the equation for Bekele or Farah. Bekele is still out here at an Olympic-level in the marathon at age 42. I doubt there was ever lies about his age, or we'd be seeing a man qualifying for a top tier distance team in his high 40s. Farah was also quite an outlier for dominating the 10k in his 30s; I also doubt he was much older.
Bekele won titles from ages 21-27, Geb won titles from 20-27 and Cheptegei has won titles from 23-27. Farah is the outlier, winning titles from ages 28-34.
Why was Farah's peak so late compared to the other greats of the 10k?
Everyone is saying doping but Farah was in all these major championships slowly improving before his jump, he just wasnt competitive at the top for a long time. And as others have said, he was obviously very into quality work for years which definitely helped build a strong speed base there before he clearly switched his routine to up the mileage. His body and weight composition changed quite a lot if you watch him in the Bekele era vs his own
only sort of related, but this motivated me to nerdily look something up, and I noticed that the top 3 in the 2003 world champs 5K were the same top 3 as in the 2004 olympic final 5K, only in a different order. kind of cool, all three being legends and consistently dominating:
I think the difference is that Farah grew up in the UK. It seems more east Africans go all in on running sooner in life and reach a high potential earlier. Westerners have often been a little late. Not sure why this is, in the US I think it's because kids do a wide variety of sports and historically didn't focus on one until college age or at least mid teenage years. In recent years more westerners have seemingly fully committed to one sport at younger ages, doing bigtime training year round by the time they're 14.
What's the justification on this? I understand the doping ideas with Farah due to his association with Salazar, but what's the reasoning for doping allegations for Bekele, Gebreselassie and Cheptegei? Looking for stuff other than they're GOATs of the sport.
This is a genuine question. I am not completely versed in the history of all these guys' careers.
Mo was a phenom as a child, easily winning at national events which Cram and co had struggled at at similar ages, but he stagnated in his early 20's. He was not a part of a consistent group in those early years. He had his own coach, but he was nomadic. He was weak, couldn't sprint, but showed tremendous talent. I want to say it was Malmo who talked on here about Mo breaking 13 off minimal training (and possibly while sick, I forget?) in 2010 in Switzerland which was the point his then-coach started to believe he could be a world beater.
At the same time he was heavy. Before Farah went to Al Sal, he was competing at 58kg and had no muscle tone. Under Al Sal at age 27 came the bespoke strength programme, through which he went down to 52kg (lots of caveats from Fudge and Salazar out there about doing this carefully; you can make your own assumptions). But keep in mind, once again, that he was already a sub 13 guy, maybe a 12:50 guy on the right day, when he came to Salazar. And that was accomplished in an era when sub 13 was still something special, and he was doing it raw. Massive talent.
The weights and sprint emphasis in addition to the removal of 4-6 kg can't be understated. Salazar focused on marginal gains in ways other coaches did not at the time. He needed world beaters who could stay lean AND flat-out sprint. This meant real weight training. Look at Sifan's similar body change through the same tactics.
I want to stress how bad Farah's sprint speed was when he went to Salazar. There was an article I came across (or perhaps a video) way back in the day of AlSal explaining this uphill 200m sprint test he used to use for base setting for all of his new athletes. It translated directly to efficiency, strength, and finishing speed. Farah's was something like the worst he'd ever seen from a high-level runner, slower even than some of the females in the group.
I'll leave it there for now for brevity's sake. But you get the point. There is a logical explanation to the progression, and of course you're right to question if you can be that strong and fast naturally at that weight, but that's a topic for another day.
Hope this is helpful.
Cram was national class at 16, and then jumping up a notch with an age 16 WR of 3:47.7 in the 1500. He didn’t “struggle” in youth competitions. He ran a 3:57 mile at 17. Please work on your descriptions.
As a youth/junior Cram only had problems at long cross country races because he wasn’t that type of runner.
Mo was a long time cheat. A very long time cheat.
I was directly referencing XC, not the 1500m.
Others a decade ago or more on these boards spoke of watching Farah running to a multi-minute lead in the national champs, while amusing himself by leaping up and touching tree branches as he crossed beneath them.
An obvious explanation is that they were doping their entire careers, while Farah waited until his late 20s.
Bekele still strikes me as the most naturally talented runner ever though, so maybe that's not the case.
But I don't know. Geb had the achilles problems, and also, maybe he wins more if no Bekele. Im not sure how they overlap.
Bekele by all accounts didn't love training, so maybe it just got harder for his body to come back as he aged. Normal.
Cheptegei just stopped. He certainly may have been able to keep it going.
What are the odds that Farah is the only doper from the group?
You realize Geb won more than Bekele, right? World Golds over 1500, 10000m, HM and 29 World Records.. same amount of 10,000m Olympic Gold. Bekele ain't on same planet statistically.
When you think of the greats of our sport, you really come across 4 distinct eras in the 10k. Cheptegei, Farah, Bekele, Gebreselassie. These four have had their own share of dominating the event. You'd think that Bekele is much older than Farah. But, in reality, Bekele is only 1 year older.
Despite the closeness in age, we never really saw a true prime Bekele v prime Farah on the track in a championship. In championship races won by Bekele, Farah never was better than 6th (2007 5000m). In championship races won by Farah, Bekele DNFed (2011 10k) and was 4th (2012 10k). The 2012 10k is the closest we get, but it's hard to argue that was prime Bekele; he hadn't won a title since 2009 at the time.
I highly doubt age cheating comes into the equation for Bekele or Farah. Bekele is still out here at an Olympic-level in the marathon at age 42. I doubt there was ever lies about his age, or we'd be seeing a man qualifying for a top tier distance team in his high 40s. Farah was also quite an outlier for dominating the 10k in his 30s; I also doubt he was much older.
Bekele won titles from ages 21-27, Geb won titles from 20-27 and Cheptegei has won titles from 23-27. Farah is the outlier, winning titles from ages 28-34.
Why was Farah's peak so late compared to the other greats of the 10k?
I've been saying this in all of the threads that claim that kipchoge s the goat cause he actually is also from the same era. Bekele is the best.
The great mystery to me is why Eliud Kipchoge never competed in the 10000m
He did, He ran 26:49.
I think he meant contesting it at global championships. Which he never did, as he failed to make the team later on in his track career before moving to the roads.
The probable explanation is that he felt like Bekele had a lock on the 10,000 and believed his only shot at upsetting him for gold was being fresh for the 5000 like he did in 2003
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
An obvious explanation is that they were doping their entire careers, while Farah waited until his late 20s.
Bekele still strikes me as the most naturally talented runner ever though, so maybe that's not the case.
But I don't know. Geb had the achilles problems, and also, maybe he wins more if no Bekele. Im not sure how they overlap.
Bekele by all accounts didn't love training, so maybe it just got harder for his body to come back as he aged. Normal.
Cheptegei just stopped. He certainly may have been able to keep it going.
What are the odds that Farah is the only doper from the group?
You realize Geb won more than Bekele, right? World Golds over 1500, 10000m, HM and 29 World Records.. same amount of 10,000m Olympic Gold. Bekele ain't on same planet statistically.
Bekele had better 5000m credentials and far outclassed Geb in XC. In what world are they "not on the same planet?"
What's the justification on this? I understand the doping ideas with Farah due to his association with Salazar, but what's the reasoning for doping allegations for Bekele, Gebreselassie and Cheptegei? Looking for stuff other than they're GOATs of the sport.
This is a genuine question. I am not completely versed in the history of all these guys' careers.
Look up Jos Hermens for starters. He was viewed as a cheat when he was a runner, and then as a coach, well, he goes to Ethiopia and ya’ know….