Is an 8:30 easy pace too slow for a 16:00 5k runner?

And supposedly a couple of 12:55 guys did all there easy stuff at 5:45. The added load supposedly resulted in greater training effect…. And if you don’t like that, a certain Norwegian supposedly is doing 6:00-6:15…

it’s been a while since I read noakes but I don’t remember comparing easy running )that 2 mins off 5k pace) with super easy running (3.30+). Lydiard used to talk about ending up in the same spot but one taking a lot longer… But it wasn’t rigorous by any means.

in the end there are a lot of things that work. You either have confidence in your program or you don’t. And things like spending 10 hours training to get the same results others get in 6 is a personal lifestyle choice..

It’s splitting hairs and it’s especially ridiculous considering we’re talking about a 16 minute 5K which is nowhere near elite level. Nobody cares.

Assuming you’re referring to Jakob here. 6:00-6:15 easy pace is 2:00 per mile/50% slower than his 5k pace. Also probably a mistake to compare the easy pace of a 7:17 3000m runner to the easy pace of a 16:00 5k runner.

This is not correct, please stop making stuff up.

Shorter ran his slow runs quite slow, most certainly slower than 7min. Also, he didn't pick it up, he took his easy days very easy.

This is from Sandrock's Running with the Legends:

"On his easy days Shorter went very easy, running with people of all abilities, being careful not to get caught up running with those who wanted to drop him to prove something. When running with a group, according to Shorter, "You go as slow as the slowest person you're running with. If someone doesn't like that, they should find another group."

"When young runners went with Shorter, they were often surprised how slowly they would go, and how joggers would pass them. They kept expecting the pace to pick up, but it never did."

Also, his 20 mile long run was not his typical easy run, it was what we today call a workout. He ran the first half around 6 pace and went down to close to 5 in the second half.

This is from Frank himself:

"I've always had a simple view of training for distance running: two hard interval sessions a week and one long run—20 miles or two hours, whichever comes first."

Just to substantiate the first half 6 min and second half 5 min comment:

"His long run was his standard 10-mile loop, run twice. He would run the first loop at a 6-minute pace, and the second often at close to a 5-minute pace or faster."

General rule for "easy pace": add about 2:00-2:30 to your 5k pace. So 16:00 is about 5:10/mi, easy runs should be 7:10-7:40, given good conditions.

If it's hot, humid, or hilly, adjust even further.

sub 13:00 for the 5k? sub 14:00 lol

What Ruiter was Chep's coach, he used to post training logs occasionally. IF a 12:35/26:11 guy is running easy days at 8:00/mile some days, I think that's all you need to know.

Easy is a feel, not a pace. Either:

1. Leave your watch at home and run by feel,

Or

2. Run for a set number of minutes, ignoring distance covered.

I have 100% certainty that you're going to ignore this advice and that I'm going to be showered with downvotes.

Most people are going way too fast.

You might be a touch on the slower side, but there's no harm in that.

For what it's worth, I'm in the same position as you; 10k PB is 32:5x and pretty much all of my easy runs are around 8:15 - 8:30 pace.

But I've continually got faster year after year, while others around me (who run much faster on their easy days) continually get injured or stagnate.

I believe you get the lion’s share of the aerobic benefits at a pace about 2x your brisk walking speed.

This makes sense from a biological standpoint as it allowed our ancestors to make double time without burning too much energy.

IMO, if a pro 5K runner did all his easy runs at 9 min pace he’d get a little slower but not much.

Of course, as a pro you can’t afford to leave even a little pace on the table so they have to do their easy runs pretty quick.

Why didn’t you have that option? 10 miles at 8:00 pace takes 10 minutes longer than 10 miles at 7:00 pace. Less of a time difference if you do less mileage than that.

Nowadays, this is LITERALLY what a lot of young people are doing to be successful.

Wake up

Double (hobby jog couple miles)

School

Main Run (hobby jog 10 miles)

HW

Sleep ~8 hours

Completely doable if you are not working after school and have a bare minimum IQ and discipline to study like 1-2 hours a night for AP classes. Fun happens on weekends.

College changes things, grant fisher is a completely anomaly with an EE major (much harder than AP classes/whatever hw).

Truth is many high schoolers are more disciplined than college kids were 20-30 years ago.

Only works for runners who know the science behind their training. Lots of 15:00 guys think 6:30 is their easy pace. They “feel” that 6:30 is their easy pace. It is not. You gotta be wary just handing this great advice out to high schoolers who you can’t trust to know their easy pace.

Exactly.

If you've always run way too hard on your easy days, then you have no reference point for how easy "easy" should be. Just running a little bit slower will probably feel a lot easier, but it's likely still too fast.

It's why you get people writing "easy tempo" for their Strava titles when they've just done a parkrun and it's only 30 seconds off their personal best. And I can think of at least a handful of people that I follow on Strava that title runs "easy", when those runs are just 15 secs/km slower than their half marathon pace.

The point is - the word "easy" is quite vague, and it can mean different things to different people if it's not tied to any specific physiological intensity.

2mins per mile gets our OP running 7:15 miles not 8:30.

now if you want to argue Jacobbis doing his easy runs at 70% vo2max and our Poster is doing 60%? Maybe. But thinking you know better than Jacob what training speeds are best for him is nuts.

Our OP is stressing out about people running 2-2:30 slower than their 5k pace. Thats nuts. If they are banging out 6:30s every day we can talk about easy days too hard.

And it takes 17 mins longer than doing 9 miles at 7 min pace like I said. the person doing 9 miles is showered and in the bus going home. The person running slow misses the bus and his calling for a ride. Which outcome do you think is acceptable?

Here's the thing. Professional runners who run 120+ MPW have nutritionists, massagers and coaches. They run, sleep, eat and recover. That is all

Hobby joggers running 70 miles per week are probably working full time, looking after kids and doing chores around the house.

It is probably more important for hobby joggers to keep easy days easy than it is for the professionals

My mindset on this topic has shifted dramatically in the last 20 years.

I now believe running easy days very easy is beneficial because it should allow you to run more mileage. So yes, go easy, but go easy so that you can run more than you have been. This should be in concert with workout days that make you faster.

I find John Korir's Strava instructive. This morning he ran 60min at 5:56/k (9:32/mi). Shockingly slow, no matter the altitude. But he came back mid-day and ran 90 more minutes (4:15/k, or 6:50/mi), which is still >2min/mile slower than his MP. And he likely will run ~60min more tonight.

He uses really slow runs to rack up significant mileage (210k/130mi last week), and then gets the most out of workout days (This week: 1hr of 3' on, 1' on done at sub 3:00k/4:50mi pace).