Doping in "hobby jogging"

Is there a legit source or written piece on the effects of peds and various drugs in regard to just *how much they can enhance performance*?. Lots of variation no doubt, but are there certain limits for certain events and expectations in numbers as to predicted improvements? Obviously not set figures, but ranges. Like charting the drug and figuring the expected performance increases for athletes with certain physical parameters.

Sure, some aging masters runners might be tempted, but most? I'd think that they are actually a bit less likely than the general aging population to use TRT/HRT because it puts a technical restriction on their racing activities. The general population not doing competitions (running, cycling, etc.) don't have that (moral?) consideration and can do it or not purely based on quality-of-life choices.

From 1977 to 2022, I admit, I drank a cup of gas station coffee, two hours before every race..

It had to be gas station coffee and come in a large styrofoam cup with the plastic lid that you had to use your finger to punch open the drinking part

There were 100’s just like me out there on those early Saturday mornings , completely wired on gas station coffee

I know some masters who are really into age group medals

We used to get them—“Masters” medals at AAU track meets in CA. they didn’t age well.

Anyone who dopes up to win a local 5K against their friends and neighbors is a serious loser. They should be locked up, but not before they receive a good solid beating.

That said, I guess there’s a difference between older men who take TRT to feel better, and somebody in their prime who dopes just because he has to win the turkey trot. Maybe the result is the same, I don’t know.

I hate to sound cliche but I have never ever tested positive. JK

Good point. My kid was born when I was 40, and it's seemingly been nonstop illnesses since then. I'm the one who has to stay home with him if he's out sick, since I have the sick time at work, as my spouse is self employed. I'm about to turn 50, and I'm hoping to get some really solid continuous stretches of illness-free running aaannyy day now.

I know I'll eventually capitulate on the super shoes, but I'm still holding on to some made up set of ideals that are getting sillier with each passing year. I did try them out a few times and laughed at how ridiculously good they feel. Maybe I'll change my mind when I turn 50 next year, and then I can finally go sub 3 for the marathon with a 3:0x current PR. Even that ship has highly likely sailed, though, since it was set 15 years ago.

I'd guess this comprises a fair amount of it. Older people on HRT for the general health reasons but they also like to enter their local 5k/half/marathon. Probably aren't on T in order to AG podium races but it helps. Honestly think in most of those cases ignorance plays into it as well.

Besides the issue of using TRT for running performance benefit, it can have serious negative side effects that should be carefully considered. It's not like you're taking a multi-vitamin. TRT boosts testo production, but can also boost prostate cancer, which is very serious. TRT can also interfere with the effectiveness of many prescription drugs that may be far more important to overall mental/physical health than feeling "boosted" and "young again". Just providing some words of caution for people considering TRT use.

At some point "doping" is a blurred line. I would never take Test. or EPO just so I could run faster, but........ I have a TERRIBLY arthritic right knee that severely limits my running these days. If I could inject either one (or both) of those drugs and my knee would heal or at least not hurt, then yeah I'd start shooting up tomorrow.

Maybe the TRT guys are using a similar justification?

I'm your typical "late bloomer" runner....I didn't run in HS/College, and didn't start to "train" until my late 20s. My mile/5k/half plateaued in my mid 30s, and they've stayed there until 45. Now, I'm noticing I need more recovery, and am more sensitive to getting good rest.

My muscle mass is disappearing, and my physique more closely resembles Ellen Degeneres than a real athlete. Still, I'm running reasonably fast.

What I notice is that some of my competitors don't seem to have the same issues I face. THey race on back to back weekends (sometimes back to back days) and are jacked...but not slower. Other signs of trt/steroid use are there too....running 1:10 half marathons/sub 230 fulls, but can't run a 5k faster than 1630 (I'm looking at you Ken R).

Whatever, I assume they're abusing their endocrine systems and will pay for it later.

How many dope is proportional to how many are willing to use super shoes and downhill races for artificial PR

I think that a lot of people who have done competitive sports for decades will agree when I say that it is often a person's physique than performance that makes me suspicious. (Someone can be on TRT but still train poorly or have limited talent/ceiling, of course!)

While it isn't unusual for an endurance athlete to be quite lean in older age, or for a devoted powerlifter to stay pretty big, with older age it becomes much more rare to see the 'hard' vascularity that is prominent with very low body fat.

You know the look, and there is no question that TRT promotes that. I just don't know how many guys like this in their 50s/60s are TRT-boosted. The stats are that prescribing is skyrocketing, and obviously athletes may be likely to be interested in the benefits.

This discussion would be far more interesting if we had more comments like yours from people who have actually tried HRT.

I have been on and off TRT for years and have had similar experience - TRT kills my distance running. Elevated heart rate, tougher to breath, weight gain, bloating in legs and especially feet, terrible sleep (which offsets any gain in recovery), etc. Its one of the reasons I quit TRT every year or so. I have read similar anecdotes from other TRT users on forums.

Does it boost your strength? Absolutely. I can see how it would be very effective for older guys in power sports like sprinting, lifting, cycling etc. But negative on the cardio at least in my experience. Point being, it's not the magic elixir for distance running that everyone makes it out to be. If you have had different experience, I would love to hear it.

EPO is still the gold standard for distance runners as all LRCers know.

Can't speak from experience, but what you describe are symptoms of too high dose of 'replacement'.

Genuinely, why? Do I not have the right to put what I want in my body?