I think Koech gets somewhat of a pass for his Rabat performance in the 1,500 because it's a more or less equivalent performance to his best 800 times. He never really seemed to focus on the 1,500 before, but I think he is what he is. 1:44.xx / 3:31.xx. That still may not even make the US team. Now, we are definitely all questioning Ruppert from Germany's performance. He dropped 8:15 to 8:01 at 28 years old in his primary event. That's suspicious!
This is the most frequented narrative right now which honestly I don't understand. So if Bryce Hoppel comes out next year after turning 28 in September and first race runs 3.27.7 everyone is also like "well it's more less equivalent to his best 800m time" ?!
I agree 100% with the OP - I said this on the other thread about Koech, if this guy did not have any US connection, the knives and daggers out for him would be almost unequivocal.
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I only offer one data point in Jonah Koeh's defense. He had run several 1:44s with no documented 400/500/600 performances. That suggests he is most likely not 400/800 type. Usually, the faster an 800m runner is at the 400m, the slower they are in the mile and vice versa. A 1:44x 800m runner who switches to a distance-based training group; I am not surprised he made a big drop in his 1500PR. A 1:44x 800m suggests with the right training there is potential for a fast 1500m. Also, it is not uncommon for athletes to run big PRs in rabbited DL meets considering all they need to do is run and not think too much.
This is the most frequented narrative right now which honestly I don't understand. So if Bryce Hoppel comes out next year after turning 28 in September and first race runs 3.27.7 everyone is also like "well it's more less equivalent to his best 800m time" ?!
I agree 100% with the OP - I said this on the other thread about Koech, if this guy did not have any US connection, the knives and daggers out for him would be almost unequivocal.
What you’re missing is that Bryce Hoppel has run lots of 1500/miles with really zero promise shown in them and he has no significant long distance credentials. Koech won two 3:37 races by 3+ seconds last year and had impressive XC credentials from his teens. You can hear in the podcast, others have been telling him to run the distance for years. It’s a unique case because you look at the guys CV and he’s setting PBs in USAs because otherwise his races are mostly US circuit races or random European meets.
I don’t know if Koech is doping but I do know that the sport is about opportunities and a guy who races in only slow races against modest competition is probably not going to run eye-popping times. Look at how many sub-1:44s are run in Bronze/Silver meets with lackluster fields, small stadiums with lots of wind, and if you’re lucky a rabbit who can hit a 50.5.
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Farah had been hyped for years due to his brilliant finishing kick. The only surprising part was that he took so long to become a world beater. Koech is a nobody who hasn't accomplished much of anything. Awful analogy.
This board spent years telling us how completely implausible it was for British runner Mo Farah (came to UK as a small boy) to get faster when he was 28. Now Koech (moved to US later in life) improves a lot at the same age suddenly he is hailed as a great American hero 'one of the greatest upsets in Diamond League history'.
What a complete joke.
"This board" is not one collective borg with a single hive mind.
I think many posters from "this board" who suspected Farah also suspect Koech, so I'm not really sure the hypocrisy you suggest exists.
Some posters from "this board" will look at various factors in each case, and may draw different conclusions based on the factors that are different, rather than the few that are the same.
Is that guy Kenyan? If so, everyone thinks he’s a cheater. Not sure what you’re talking about, OP.
If you’re concerned about a lack of discussion around it, it’s mostly because the racing community has become completely desensitized to any Kenyan outperformer. Collectively, we yawn, assume they’re doped and will eventually be busted to no one’s surprise, and move on. No one cares.
What you’re missing is that Bryce Hoppel has run lots of 1500/miles with really zero promise shown in them and he has no significant long distance credentials. Koech won two 3:37 races by 3+ seconds last year and had impressive XC credentials from his teens. You can hear in the podcast, others have been telling him to run the distance for years. It’s a unique case because you look at the guys CV and he’s setting PBs in USAs because otherwise his races are mostly US circuit races or random European meets.
I don’t know if Koech is doping but I do know that the sport is about opportunities and a guy who races in only slow races against modest competition is probably not going to run eye-popping times. Look at how many sub-1:44s are run in Bronze/Silver meets with lackluster fields, small stadiums with lots of wind, and if you’re lucky a rabbit who can hit a 50.5.
I'm not missing anything. And I understand Jonah Koech won 2 1500m races in 3.37 in sh-tty meets last year.
The post I responded to simply said that this performance is an equivalent one to his 800m times. But it doesn't in my opinion and I'm entitled to that. The scoring tables (while I've always maintained aren't 100% conclusive, but reasonably accurate) have a 1.44.3 performance around 3.33.6 so "they" would agree with me too.
So the performance is still a career outlier, has come at an advanced stage in his career and doesn't answer the question as to why, with all the ability and pedigree you have laid out, he hasn't really bothered with the distance seriously when he was capable of such performances then as he was in Rabat (his highest profile win, biggest payday, career altering win in terms of starts and appearance fees moving forwards).
The man just ran 1:43:32 to win the 800m at the Kipkaino Classic Continental Tour!
Yeah, quite a step up this year for Mr Koech. All those years in his early/mid twenties running in that mid 1.44 range and now boom. Big 800/1500m PR's in the course of 7 days.
I'm not missing anything. And I understand Jonah Koech won 2 1500m races in 3.37 in sh-tty meets last year.
The post I responded to simply said that this performance is an equivalent one to his 800m times. But it doesn't in my opinion and I'm entitled to that. The scoring tables (while I've always maintained aren't 100% conclusive, but reasonably accurate) have a 1.44.3 performance around 3.33.6 so "they" would agree with me too.
So the performance is still a career outlier, has come at an advanced stage in his career and doesn't answer the question as to why, with all the ability and pedigree you have laid out, he hasn't really bothered with the distance seriously when he was capable of such performances then as he was in Rabat (his highest profile win, biggest payday, career altering win in terms of starts and appearance fees moving forwards).
Read the Lets Run article about him. He said people have been trying to get him to run longer distances than the 800 for a long time, but he didn’t bother with them because he loves the 800 and liked doing 800 training with Rudisha.
Maybe you should learn about someone’s career journey before spouting off ignorant takes about him.
Mr. Grey-Line... you mean, banned drug cheat Salazar. Farah also lied about his injection to USADA, for which he should have been banned right then, right there.
If Koech goes on to do the double-double at the next two Olympics and Worlds, I will probably get a little suspicious.
Exactly. OP is making a big jump in assumptions after one race. Let’s say pre-super shoes Koech had a 1:44-1:45 PR and he ran 3:33 to win a soft DL race. Would this arouse the same level of suspicion? Probably not, nor would it be talked about much if he hadn’t have won the race and was mid-pack (again: he won a soft race). The guy clearly has proven talent over the last decade and finally put it together. Like Hoey - I think a lot of things can get aligned, on top of supershoes and BiCarb, to create these breakout performances.
I also don’t feel like someone who’s part of the Army program and gained their citizenship through the army - is quite as likely as any normal Kenyan (or other Letsrun-suspected foreigner) to get into doping
Mr. Grey-Line... you mean, banned drug cheat Salazar. Farah also lied about his injection to USADA, for which he should have been banned right then, right there.
The actual term used was "gray area".
By whom? zxcvxcvz said "Mr. Grey-Line", to which thereismore responded. Fact: he was banned because he went across several red lines.