Are "VO2 Max" Sessions Dead?

Interesting. Without those reps, I run at a much slower pace for 3-10. I can run an ok half marathon, but dropping the pace from there feels incredibly hard without those sessions. I don't really do reps faster than that though. I race below 5k infrequently, so 400s don't seem worth an effort.

I suspect they will make a comeback now that Jacob’s Achilles is already failing.

IMO, people get too hung up on the oxygen part of the part of the equation.

It’s about getting some volume for the race pace muscle fibers.

The heart and lungs are simply responding to the demands placed by those fibers.

Jakob's achilles is going because he runs on the treadmill too often. There is a proven link there.

As for VO2max, I think more races instead of VO2max workouts solve this problem, and you get the double bang of getting race experience and working on pacing along with the VO2max benefits. In order, the priority in training continues to be this: volume --> speed --> strength --> threshold (aerobic or lactate) --> VO2max --> anaerobic/lactate resistance

I agree with your training priorities for the majority of 5k and up athletes. I would place equal emphasis on VO2 and Threshold for anyone focusing on 1500m/3k and equal emphasis on VO2 and tolerance for the 800/1500 athlete.

I disagree with your "more races instead of VO2max" statement. While races are important for all the reasons you listed, racing more frequently is very taxing on the body and with no preparation at that intensity (vVO2) it will be run at a detriment to performance. By desiring workouts intelligently you can achieve the benefit from VO2 in a controlled environment to achieve the proper amount of bang for your buck.

I'm amazed at how the running community has lost sight of a basic training principle of SPECIFICITY. You need to prepare for the intensity and stress of a race in training. Racing without specific preparation is shot in the dark.

And the muscle fibers are just responding to the nerve signals.

And the nerve signals are just responding to your thought processes.

And your thought processes are just responding to your knowledge and intuition.

You’re correct. It starts in the brain but the heart and lungs lag behind the muscle fibers.

It’s the muscle fiber contractions that move the bones and get you down the road. The Heart and lungs are the fuel pump and carburetor.

Running some quick 150/200 meter reps at the end of a threshold workout is plenty of speed for 10k+ runners

What about all the turning he would be doing if he did those workouts on a track? At his speed it’s gotta be hard on the body.

I sometimes wonder if SPECIFICITY and "Zone Training" are at odds with each other.

I loved 3x1600m because it was SPECIFIC for my beloved 5000m. But some might say "That's VO2 max." (Or close to it.)

Which came first? Trying to be SPECIFIC or trying to do one of the zones perfectly?

Wasn't his Achilles problem caused by doing heavy squats in season?

Boundary between "aerobic capacity" and "anaerobic capacity"?

The 3000m race is about 85% aerobic and 15% anaerobic.

Yeah well don't you think that depends on the athlete in question and where they are in their season? You can't just start a HS freshmen out doing repeat 1200s.

You gotta start somewhere, so yeah.. maybe someone is doing 400m reps but that's so later in the season they can eventually advance on to 1ks.

Context is important here is all I'm saying

You can run track workouts both directions, and it typically balances out the muscles nicely. The treadmill does not work on the stabilizing muscles at all, so once you do need to recruit those muscles, they get overtaxed very quickly. I'm sure Jakob's achilles takes on a lot more stress because his calves are the dominant-recruited muscles his lower legs rather than the work being spread out between the calves and peroneals.

Really? The treadmill doesn't work on the "stabilizing muscles" at all?

How long have you been studying biomechanics?

Not really. The rests are too long. It is closer to a Daniel’s rep workout but it isn’t an exact match. Not quite hard enough for vo2, a bit too hard for Rep

Outside of the base phase you will see more workouts that line up with tradition vo2. For example supposed Jacob ran 6x800 before his 2m WR and one of he told programs had 8x1k at 5k pace.

we just tend to see a lot more base weeks and last couple weeks if prep work weeks and tend to miss out on the race specific phase in between.

Specificity is the training principle that lead to "zone training." When you train specifically for races you find yourself training in these traditional training zones.

These guys (INSCYD) say a variety of paces faster than threshold can get you to VO2 max, whereas Daniels (just looked at his new edition with Sara Hall on the cover) says you have to run at VO2 max pace or faster to get to VO2 max. I have had good results with INSCYD:

inscyd.com

Science of VO2max Intervals: A Comprehensive Guide for Endurance Performance

@INSCYD

Unlock the science behind VO2max intervals to optimize endurance performance. Learn how to tailor workouts, improve aerobic power, and make data-driven training decisions. A must-read for sports coaches and athletes.

Link:inscyd.com/article/vo2max-intervals/

It’s a pendulum, it’ll swing back eventually and vo2 max intervals will be back in style. People were crazy about CV/10k pace here for a bit and now it’s double threshold/shorter threshold intervals. What it’ll look like exactly is hard to say.

The open secret for a bit has been don’t need to do a ton of vo2 max work, but it’s still important to some degree depending on how and if you periodize. Considering the best vo2 workout you can do is race I’d say they’re still very much so in style.

VO2 max implies maximum heart rate. Getting to max HR occasionally is still an important stimulus. If you are a HS kid, who races frequently @ 800-3200m, then you're getting that maximal stimulus already. If you are 400/800 kid, though, you're probably not getting that stimulus, so would need to work it into your training in small amounts.

My main issue with VO2 paced stuff these days is that my kids just perform better when they do mostly CV and Threshold stuff and then do some fast reps. I think If I was coaching adults or college runners, we'd work it in though, because their race frequency would be much lower.