Most runners need some running at and faster than race pace to race fast. If you never touch on these paces, all your races will prob end up being between half and marathon pace - or at least what those paces would be if you did some real speedwork. Where is this notion that you can just do threshold pace work and run fast coming from?
100mpw
Double often
mid 17s on a good day wrote:
I've been trying the whole threshold / sub threshold thing for 6 months and have had very little improvement. I've been doing 10 miles a week at the recommended paces and running around 5 hours a week. I've neglected faster stuff. At this point I'm starting to think I might as well hammer some workouts, or at least alternate between threshold and faster.
Run 40 miles per week. If u r 1730 for 5k run this workout. Sunday 12 miles 7:30 pace monday off. Tuesday 2 mile warmup. 6×800m 2:30 pace 200 m jog/90 seconds recovery 2 mile CD. Wednesday easy 5 miles recovery. Thursday 2 mile warmup, 3 x 1 mile 5:20 pace 2 min jog between 2 mile cooldown. Friday off. Saturday tempo run. 2 miles easy then pick up to 5k race pace for 7 to 9 minutes then easy 2 miles. Thats all u need
do half what elites do
assuming you are around 1430 5k ability
or not
do half what elites do for 10 weeks, and move to more speed
you can do a lot of anything and provided you recover you adapt and get better
if you don't recover on the perfect schedule, its not perfect and you will go no where
i write this same thing over and over, every 6 months.
as a duty
mid 17s on a good day wrote:
I've been trying the whole threshold / sub threshold thing for 6 months and have had very little improvement. I've been doing 10 miles a week at the recommended paces and running around 5 hours a week. I've neglected faster stuff. At this point I'm starting to think I might as well hammer some workouts, or at least alternate between threshold and faster.
So you're running at most 40-45 miles a week. It's not the workouts that's the problem. It's the lack of training. Unless you have the same DNA as Justyn Kngiht, you're going need to run more to run faster. I'm not saying you need to start running 100 miles a week. But bump up your weekly total volume to 6-8 hours per week and report back in a few months.
Stress + rest = growth. If you're not improving, you are either training too hard, too much, too little or not hard enough.
As the great Ron Clarke once said: training should be like sunbathing: too much too soon and you get burned. Not enough sun and you don't get a tan..
Kvothe wrote:
Where is this notion that you can just do threshold pace work and run fast coming from?
Not sure if you’ve seen the 250+ page thread dedicated to sub threshold, but a lot of people are running faster than they ever have before, primarily at distances at or under half-marathon. The thread starter is down to 15-flat 5km, which really isn’t slow.
The argument is that most amateur runners are not reaching their potential due to a lack of speed, but due to being aerobically underdeveloped. The race pace stuff isn’t really necessary for them to improve and carries an undue injury risk for a short-term benefit. That being said, a lot of people either race regularly or throw in strides to stimulate the faster stuff a bit.
Leave the threshold stuff for the elite.
Just pick a program in jack Daniels or pfitz or any other book u can find.
That threshold stuff does not work for everyone n u need many years n high volume to achieve. Also dont forget that they hammer the hill session on Saturday so u can hammer too.
I know some people have success with the threshold stuff but they usually come from a background of a lot of running or they will dedicate themselves to high volumes (100 km a week minimum).
I think we will see a more balanced training approach in the future. There is certainly a place for vo2 max stuff too...
Kvothe wrote:
Most runners need some running at and faster than race pace to race fast. If you never touch on these paces, all your races will prob end up being between half and marathon pace - or at least what those paces would be if you did some real speedwork. Where is this notion that you can just do threshold pace work and run fast coming from?
Good post.
One of the dumbest things about the "threshold revolution" is the INCORRECT take that Jakob and others never run race pace of faster.
Jakob does "classic" race pace / VO2 type workouts, in racing season; he just uses them to sharpen rather than doing them for long periods as in some programs.
He also uses hills year-round, basically mile-pace efforts but with more muscular strengthening effects and less injury risk.
Up to 8 hours a week if volume and add 1-2 sessions a week of 10 second hill sprints.