Okay. No gold medals, only one total medal, a short career, and his times have all been destroyed for a long time.
On the other hand, he ran multiple world records in the mile, 1500m, and 800m on very slow tracks with no drafting or pacing in most of them, and showed the ability under modern conditions to run still-standing world records. He also was the best closer of all time, running 36s on dirt for the last 300m of a 3:38 1500m in 1967.
Jim Ryun might crack the top ten men’s middle distance runners of all time. Maybe. Off the top of my head El Gerrouj, Coe, Snell, Rudisha, Mourceli, Ingebrigtsen are all certainly much better. And obviously also Kip Keino. Zero Olympic golds does not make a GOAT.
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
I wouldn’t say greatest ever but clearly ahead of his time. This debate is routine on here, but I’ve always thought Ryun would’ve been a second per lap faster with modern tracks and better pacing, pre-super shoes. Jim Ryun would’ve been a 3:29/3:47 guy if he were running in 2018. Then give him the super shoes, and he’s sub-3:27/sub-3:45, consistent with the best, non-doped in recent history. If Jim Ryun were running in the 2024 Olympic 1500, he would’ve medaled and been right there for gold.
Jim Ryun might crack the top ten men’s middle distance runners of all time. Maybe. Off the top of my head El Gerrouj, Coe, Snell, Rudisha, Mourceli, Ingebrigtsen are all certainly much better. And obviously also Kip Keino. Zero Olympic golds does not make a GOAT.
You have to shorten your list but cutting out the dopers…
Jim Ryun might crack the top ten men’s middle distance runners of all time. Maybe. Off the top of my head El Gerrouj, Coe, Snell, Rudisha, Mourceli, Ingebrigtsen are all certainly much better. And obviously also Kip Keino. Zero Olympic golds does not make a GOAT.
You have to shorten your list but cutting out the dopers…
I will add to it instead. Herb Elliot, Joaquim Cruz, Said Aouita, Steve Ovett, and fellow zero golds winner Wilson Kipleter are also all better than Ryun.
You have to shorten your list but cutting out the dopers…
I will add to it instead. Herb Elliot, Joaquim Cruz, Said Aouita, Steve Ovett, and fellow zero golds winner Wilson Kipleter are also all better than Ryun.
Sorry man, Ryun was both pre-steroids AND pre-Epo era.
He “only” has an Olympic silver and a short-lived world record, I’ll give you that. We cannot say he was “the greatest ever.”
I will add to it instead. Herb Elliot, Joaquim Cruz, Said Aouita, Steve Ovett, and fellow zero golds winner Wilson Kipleter are also all better than Ryun.
Sorry man, Ryun was both pre-steroids AND pre-Epo era.
He “only” has an Olympic silver and a short-lived world record, I’ll give you that. We cannot say he was “the greatest ever.”
He’s not even the best of his era. That’s Kip Keino.
Sorry man, Ryun was both pre-testing AND pre-Epo era.
FIFY
There were steroids aplenty in the 60s, but more importantly, stimulants aplenty.
Testing didn't begin until the 1968 olympics, and only in-competition testing, and Ryun bombed. Hmm I wonder why.
The 60s were a time of great upheaval, with teens doing all kinds of drugs.
People act like every top modern elite must be doping, because otherwise dopers would beat them. And they are correct. But somehow they think this wouldn't apply when dopers had absolute impunity.
Sorry man, Ryun was both pre-testing AND pre-Epo era.
FIFY
There were steroids aplenty in the 60s, but more importantly, stimulants aplenty.
Testing didn't begin until the 1968 olympics, and only in-competition testing, and Ryun bombed. Hmm I wonder why.
The 60s were a time of great upheaval, with teens doing all kinds of drugs.
People act like every top modern elite must be doping, because otherwise dopers would beat them. And they are correct. But somehow they think this wouldn't apply when dopers had absolute impunity.
So you think Ryun was on what stimulant exactly? Can you call it out? I already named erythropoietin. I take your point, really, I do, but I’m framing this comparing Ryun to very suspicious Africans from the most suspicious era some three decades later during some of the most suspicious improvements on other short lists…
There were steroids aplenty in the 60s, but more importantly, stimulants aplenty.
Testing didn't begin until the 1968 olympics, and only in-competition testing, and Ryun bombed. Hmm I wonder why.
The 60s were a time of great upheaval, with teens doing all kinds of drugs.
People act like every top modern elite must be doping, because otherwise dopers would beat them. And they are correct. But somehow they think this wouldn't apply when dopers had absolute impunity.
So you think Ryun was on what stimulant exactly? Can you call it out? I already named erythropoietin. I take your point, really, I do, but I’m framing this comparing Ryun to very suspicious Africans from the most suspicious era some three decades later during some of the most suspicious improvements on other short lists…
Don't try to flip the burden of proof, you started this by acting like all the moderns are dopers and all the old timers are clean.
Ask a boomer how hard it was to get bennies, even after their OTC status was revoked.
Yes, we can't prove anyone was doping then ... because there was no testing. But we can presume they did whatever they could get away with, which was pretty much anything ... because there was no testing.
So you think Ryun was on what stimulant exactly? Can you call it out? I already named erythropoietin. I take your point, really, I do, but I’m framing this comparing Ryun to very suspicious Africans from the most suspicious era some three decades later during some of the most suspicious improvements on other short lists…
Don't try to flip the burden of proof, you started this by acting like all the moderns are dopers and all the old timers are clean.
Ask a boomer how hard it was to get bennies, even after their OTC status was revoked.
Yes, we can't prove anyone was doping then ... because there was no testing. But we can presume they did whatever they could get away with, which was pretty much anything ... because there was no testing.
I’m not flipping any burden of proof… none of these guys from any era was ever convicted. I’m simply asking what stimulant? Was it as asthma inhaler or something?
FWIW, I don’t think any of them, modern or historical era, is squeaky clean. But, Epo was a game changer. Absolute paradigm shift.
Don't try to flip the burden of proof, you started this by acting like all the moderns are dopers and all the old timers are clean.
Ask a boomer how hard it was to get bennies, even after their OTC status was revoked.
Yes, we can't prove anyone was doping then ... because there was no testing. But we can presume they did whatever they could get away with, which was pretty much anything ... because there was no testing.
I’m not flipping any burden of proof… none of these guys from any era was ever convicted. I’m simply asking what stimulant? Was it as asthma inhaler or something?
FWIW, I don’t think any of them, modern or historical era, is squeaky clean. But, Epo was a game changer. Absolute paradigm shift.
When was El G ever "convicted?"
Do I have to quote the post where you listed a bunch of modern GOAT contenders, all faster than Ryun, who were never "convicted" either?
I have as much right to call Ryun a doper as you have to say the same about El G, Komen, or even Lagat.
These modern runners were all tested many times, including out of competition for steroids, and in competition for stimulants. Yet you presume them guilty because they competed while epo tests did not exist.
Why, then, don't you make the same presumption about athletes who competed while no tests existed at all? No tests at all.
for what it's worth, we all have every right to call every top elite runner a doper, at least in America, the last battleground of free speech. We have every reason to believe they are. All of them. Probably the top 10 of every yearly form chart, at the very least.