I am a LIBERAL who just CHANGED my mind on TARIFFS

This is the worst argument ever. "Sorry Americans you will never have high wages because I support corporations using child labor to build televisions in Asia"

It wasn't long ago that a father could support an entire family of 5 on a single income by working at Ford. They could buy a house and live a great life, the wife never had to work. And corporations were still very profitable.

the GOP sales pitch is nonsense. they are selling we get industry back and high paying jobs. in reality they hate inflation, and don't want to pay more for things. how do you raise wages while trying to make things cheaper?

you don't.

what this is, is a GOP boss class wanting tariff protection for their businesses. they don't want to pay their people more. they wouldn't mind if the minimum wage went away. they don't care how affordable their stuff is. they care that you are almost compelled to buy it.

it is unsurprising that the "you don't need college" folks are the ones happily supporting this nonsense. a deep dark secret of modern american life has been that while inequality has grown, part of what made it tolerable for the working class -- any idiot can have a huge flatscreen for $250-300 -- is global trade.

a fundamental issue on this tariff thing is that such a policy requires long term stability to meaningfully attempt. if i am a manufacturer. if i am considering an american plant. i need to know these tariffs are there for a loooooong time covering my tookus. otherwise i am uncompetitive for all the reasons we already know. my understanding of the polling is the majority of people oppose anything except china tariffs. the ruling party is doing a horrible job and may get tossed in 2 years with their tariffs, right around when my plant finishes construction.

that and trump has a pretty consistent pattern of threatening this sort of crap, then caving under pressure and accepting some sort of face saving concession that is a morsel of his threats.

as such, the risk is i borrow money and build factories based on a 67% tariff that in 5 minutes trump drops for a 5% tariff and autographed photo with xi.

that and short term everything being done throws this in recession which maybe kills the lending i need, the contractors i would work with, the eager domestic market for my products.

What was automation technology like then?

Assume that you run a company now and would like to keep it profitable. Would you invest a ton of money and time in developing new U.S.-based production that might not be fully operational the fore the tariff guy changes his mind or leaves office? Or would you wait him out?

I think you also neglect how much corporations and trade partners prefer consistency and a measure of predictability and reliability over mercurial self-absorption.

Since when did democrats care more about corporate profits instead of American's rights?

"Workers in this country should not be asked to compete against desperate people around the world who work for pennies an hour. That is wrong."

"We have got to move away from unfettered free trade, telling American workers in this country they've got to compete against people who make 30, 50 cents an hour, to FAIR TRADE in which the middle class and working families of this country get a fair shake"

Bernie's epic 2016 campaign message:

Nancy Pelosi:

Why did you vote for Kamala?

What about my post indicated a need to rely on what “democrats care about”? You spoke about a family living well on an industrial manufacturing job in the U.S., and I pointed to a different technological reality we inhabit today, even if it doesn’t seem too far removed in time from the America you’re thinking of.

I spoke about what companies will do, and what management might be incentivized to do. The likeliest way to get them to run the companies in a way that promotes economic nationalism is to coerce them into doing so.

If you want to play the “since when” game: Since when did Republicans put all their eggs in a top-down statism basket? We have decades of Republicans labeling people as commies for spouting these ideas, and now in their eyes free-market advocates are apparently “RINOs.”

Hey, by all means you can remind the Trumpers that they follow a course inching ever closer to what the socialist senator from Vermont has proposed.

In terms of how bad something can be, you might remember Sowell’s remark that there are no solutions, only trade-offs.

And history shows that the trade-offs tend to get more severe and affect more people as the people offering the “solution” are more and more convinced they’re right, and less and less willing to admit to facts that indicate the error of their ways.

Neither free trade nor protectionism are in the benefit of working people. They are just different ways the elite exploit them.

You cannot have the ability of capital to move across borders without also allowing workers to.

That is the great friction of the time - people who want to move their money to different markets to exploit workers but do not want those workers turning up on their doorstep.

I’m a conservative who doesn’t like them but can deal with the temporary results.

What I can’t deal with is democrat communist policies that destroy western civilization, freedom and take the side of criminals.

Until the democrats run good candidates!

Let freedom ring!

LIBERALS don't randomly use ALL CAPS in their sentences while WRITING them that's something you know who does in his TWEETS and you're getting that habit from HIM and pretending to be a LIBERAL who CHANGED their mind.

"I am a die-hard liberal." = "I am a Trumpette to the bone."

Not even entertaining. Try harder.

China and others are using slavery. The US can't match that and shouldn't.

Guys, I don't know how to tell this to you, but it will take 5-10 years before any new factories get built here in response to tariffs, most business owners are just going to wait for 3 years until Trump and his tariffs are gone anyway, and any new factories that get built here will be highly automated and employ only a handful of people.

That job at the Ford plant that provides a sole breadwinner salary to a HS graduate is Not. Coming. Back.

Ok but why do you think tariffs will increase wages? What is our advantage going to be internationally? How are we going to increase exports? Is Trump going to invest in training STEM people? Because having very high quality is the only realistic way to compete. Otherwise we are just going to be isolated and poor.

There is a saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

A brief history on US Canada trade. The first free trade agreement was signed in 1988 when Regan was the president. Mexico entered the deal in 1994 and the agreement was renamed NAFTA. It continued without any major problems for over twenty years through various administrations on both sided of the border.

Then in 2017 during Trump's first administration he wanted it renegotiated. It was and the new agreement USMCA was signed in 2020, Trump's last year. At the time of signing Trump stated:

The USMCA is the largest, fairest, most balanced, and modern trade agreement ever achieved. There’s never been anything like it.

This is a colossal victory for our farmers, ranchers, energy workers, factory workers, and American workers in all 50 states and, you could almost say, beyond — because it’s all beyond.

The USMCA is estimated to add another 1.2 percent to our GDP and create countless new American jobs. It will make our blue-collar boom — which is beyond anybody’s expectation — even bigger, stronger, and more extraordinary, delivering massive gains for the loyal citizens of our nation.

For the first time in American history, we have replaced a disastrous trade deal that rewarded outsourcing with a truly fair and reciprocal trade deal that will keep jobs, wealth, and growth right here in America.

Then, two months into his second term he states:

I look at some of these agreements, I’d read them at night, and I’d say, ‘Who would ever sign a thing like this?

He then uses national security and fentanyl as an excuse to try to ignore the conditions in USMCA and impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

Basically why would any country negotiate a deal with the Trump administration when he can renege on it at any moment claiming national security and fentanyl? The reason Canadians are so angry with the States, cross border traffic is down 20%, boycotts of US goods etc. is the fact that we went through the full renegotiation process in his first term and assumed that would put the issue to bed for another generation. Instead we are dragged into this mess based on his insatiable ego.

Apparently countries like Vietnam are looking to negotiate some deal with Trump. My opinion is good luck with that. Whatever Trump agrees to on Monday becomes the starting point for negotiations on Tuesday.

People in other countries in the Western industrialized world all have health care, it is only this backward nation that does not. I would tax the US corparations who manufacture abroad when they bring their products home not penalize the nation that produces them.