On rare occasions, I begrudgingly respect your posts because you say what needs to be said. But you need to educate yourself on TRT.
TRT is not a magic elixir for aging distance runners for a number of reasons - at higher doses there is too much water weight gain (especially in the feet), crappy sleep, difficulty breathing, etc. My cardio was garbage on TRT.
EPO is the far more effective choice regardless of age.
I'm a senior fitness enthusiast/influencer (64) & have not heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT or experiencing those side-effects on standard doses of TRT. On the contrary, guys I know at my gym on TRT report phenomenal results & often question why they didn't go on it sooner.
How old are you? What was your baseline & what level did you boost up to? Any thoughts from your doctor on this?
Keep in mind that TRT has a dose-dependant stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis raising Hct/Hgb levels which is more pronounced in older men:
(I know a couple of guys over the years on TRT who's Hct went from a baseline of ~43 to over 50 on just the standard TRT dose the Low-T center put them on).
TRT also off-sets the stress of more intense excercise which would significantly aid in the recovery of an older athlete:
On rare occasions, I begrudgingly respect your posts because you say what needs to be said. But you need to educate yourself on TRT.
TRT is not a magic elixir for aging distance runners for a number of reasons - at higher doses there is too much water weight gain (especially in the feet), crappy sleep, difficulty breathing, etc. My cardio was garbage on TRT.
EPO is the far more effective choice regardless of age.
I'm a senior fitness enthusiast/influencer (64) & have not heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT or experiencing those side-effects on standard doses of TRT. On the contrary, guys I know at my gym on TRT report phenomenal results & often question why they didn't go on it sooner.
How old are you? What was your baseline & what level did you boost up to? Any thoughts from your doctor on this?
Keep in mind that TRT has a dose-dependant stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis raising Hct/Hgb levels which is more pronounced in older men:
(I know a couple of guys over the years on TRT who's Hct went from a baseline of ~43 to over 50 on just the standard TRT dose the Low-T center put them on).
TRT also off-sets the stress of more intense excercise which would significantly aid in the recovery of an older athlete:
Thanks for response, but note I was discussing TRT in context of distance running, not gym strength where TRT indeed boosts performance.
I have participated in TRT forums for years and have read many anecdotes about cardio suffering under TRT. Fluid retention is probably the #1 complaint about TRT.
My point in raising this is that there are much more effective ways to dope than TRT.
1500m WRs Age 40 3:37.9 -Lagat. Converted from 3:54.9 mile time = 3:27.71 age graded AG 45 3:48.72 = 3:30.56 AG 50 3:58.26 = 3:31.37 AG 55 4:11.79= 3:34.71 AG 60 4:19.00 - projected outdoor time = 3:31.71 AG 65 4:29.00 Projected some time in next 5 years = 3:30.2
Age-graded equivalents are not accurate conversions in terms of what one could have run.
I understand there are equivalence tables but they are incorrect.
For example, if a 50 year male one day breaks 4 minutes; that does not mean he would have run 3:38 as a younger man.
Improved longevity and social conditions means masters runners are running times closer to elite than before. Notice the WR for normal age in middle distances are not moving much.
I'm a senior fitness enthusiast/influencer (64) & have not heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT or experiencing those side-effects on standard doses of TRT. On the contrary, guys I know at my gym on TRT report phenomenal results & often question why they didn't go on it sooner.
How old are you? What was your baseline & what level did you boost up to? Any thoughts from your doctor on this?
Keep in mind that TRT has a dose-dependant stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis raising Hct/Hgb levels which is more pronounced in older men:
(I know a couple of guys over the years on TRT who's Hct went from a baseline of ~43 to over 50 on just the standard TRT dose the Low-T center put them on).
TRT also off-sets the stress of more intense excercise which would significantly aid in the recovery of an older athlete:
Thanks for response, but note I was discussing TRT in context of distance running, not gym strength where TRT indeed boosts performance.
I have participated in TRT forums for years and have read many anecdotes about cardio suffering under TRT. Fluid retention is probably the #1 complaint about TRT.
My point in raising this is that there are much more effective ways to dope than TRT.
Well some of these guys at my gym on TRT are also doing cardio - some even non-competitive running - and not just weight lifting to get big & muscular.
Also, keep in mind of the number of elite distance runners over the years that have been popped using androgens in low doses. They're not interested in putting on muscle & bulk, but interested in the recovery effects from hard training. Plus any increase - even small - in Hct/Hgb would be another bonus for them.
And with the lower dose they're using and their training geared to distance running & not bodybuilding/powerlifting, they're not gain a bunch of bulk & fluid retention.
There may be more effective ways for a younger elite distance athlete to dope but necessarily for a senior athlete. For them replacing declining hormones is the gold standard for improving performance in all types of physical activity.
I expected faster. I am 58. I ran 17:20 for 5k last year. I think i could run 4:45 for 1500 and I am a nobody. My lifetime PR was 4:10 for 1500. I expected that a 3:30 guy would still be close to 4:00.
4:20.32 - and it came a day after he ran 2:09.79 in the indoor 800m.
800: R McHarg 2:09.79 1500: 1 McHarg 4:20.32 (WR); 2 A Ridley 4:21.91
Athletics Weekly wrote:
Andrew Ridley, wary of Rob McHarg’s 800m prowess, started at a furious pace and 400m in 67 and 800m in 2:17 (quicker than all bar McHarg ran in the event the day before) set up a surefire record if they didn’t blow up on the second half. In one of the greatest ever masters clashes, Ridley pushed through the second half at a similar pace in attempt to drop his rival who had finished six seconds behind him in Gothenburg last summer. Just before the bell, McHarg kicked past in an effort to surprise and although Ridley chased throughout the last lap the Scot held on through a 33-second last 200m with a time of 4:20.32 to take four seconds off of Ridley’s mark as both he and Ridley (4:21.91) were well inside the outdoor world record too.
How does this report make sense.
400m (67), 800m (2:17/70), 1200 ('similar pace', assume 3:24 at best), last 200m (33sec)....that means 1200-1400 had to be 23sec!!!
4:20.32 - and it came a day after he ran 2:09.79 in the indoor 800m.
800: R McHarg 2:09.79 1500: 1 McHarg 4:20.32 (WR); 2 A Ridley 4:21.91
How does this report make sense.
400m (67), 800m (2:17/70), 1200 ('similar pace', assume 3:24 at best), last 200m (33sec)....that means 1200-1400 had to be 23sec!!!
so you think he ran the last 100m in like 21s (23/2+x = 33)? You also think he ran like 11.5 for 100m? That is Allen Webb type pacing.
I am guessing they hit 1200 around 3:30 and ran the last 300 in 50. So like 34s from 1200-1400 and a 16s last 100m. Probably more like 3:28/3:29 for 1200m but the above keeps the math super simple.
I don’t mean to be negative but there’s a reason most records for the elderly in track and field are from white people. Because it’s not competitive. We need to celebrate where it matters.
some outlier is going to run sub 4 1500 easy, not me. one of these 40 year olds running 2 hour marathons, if preserved freakishly, can do that. that's a 420 mile.
some people don't age at all normally. a 60 year old chronologically, that is "actually" in their early forties.
On rare occasions, I begrudgingly respect your posts because you say what needs to be said. But you need to educate yourself on TRT.
TRT is not a magic elixir for aging distance runners for a number of reasons - at higher doses there is too much water weight gain (especially in the feet), crappy sleep, difficulty breathing, etc. My cardio was garbage on TRT.
EPO is the far more effective choice regardless of age.
interesting, there are a lot of anabolics, peptides, and cycles to look at, with tour de france protocols, secret burrito juice. which contains EPO
there are cardio vascular dilators, and chelators, and that can be a game change.
stem cells, hgh, if you have five figures for a proper doc and clinic.
done right you'll be healthy and fit.
self directed, you're probably in route to the hospital.
with anabolics you can run short mild cycles of three or four weeks and not mess cardio.
your test will come back quickly in short cycles and we are talking moderate.
if you have been on TRT a long time, best go to your doctor and get help to reboot your testosteronel
in a short testo phase you can do leg curls, curls, body squats, light running and multiple easy strides. and recover. you will have appreciable gains.
then for a couple of months, no TRT, and do normal running training program.
I don’t mean to be negative but there’s a reason most records for the elderly in track and field are from white people. Because it’s not competitive. We need to celebrate where it matters.
dear self hating racist
google List of world records in masters athletics free for all.
Japanese and Brazil are big.
Damien Leake, Willie Gault so called "black" records, as well as many of his "colleagues" of pigment are big in the tables.
if you want a record, you're going to have to beat a Japanese to do it.
I don’t mean to be negative but there’s a reason most records for the elderly in track and field are from white people. Because it’s not competitive. We need to celebrate where it matters.
Little financial incentive for 60 year old Kenyans to dope to win VM60 races.
Most 60 year old Kenyan former pros are dead or wrecked from the doping they did when they were young.
The senior 1500m is now dominated by white people (with the exception of Nuguse) because of better anti-doping in Kenya and North Africa. Of course, the exception might creep through such as Wanyonyi, whose coach actually admits to blood testing his athletes so they don't get busted, and he may well run 3:23 or 3:24 this year if he takes the 1500 seriously (and doesn't get popped). Same is true for Sedjati.
