Remember only USA is clean and there WRs should be celebrated but clearly to the gills, if you are a person of colour or a women, it’s fair game
There’s a difference between taking fractions of a second off a relatively recent 3000m record or breaking a 5000m record that is now old enough to drink, and what just happened with Kiplimo breaking his 10k PR en route to shattering 1.3% off an already strong record, or Ruth coming out of nowhere to take minutes off the marathon record.
Coming out of nowhere for Ruth might be a tad strong. Although it was a massive jump in performance.
I don't think a woman splitting 2:10 pace on two seperate occasions half way through a marathon, before finally running 2:10 for the whole marathon is exactly coming out of nowhere. Everyone just thought her 65 half marathon splits in past races were tactically bad pacing.
Ruth took no more time off the record than Paula Radcliffe. Did Paula "come out of nowhere" as well. I think you might say she did, and fair enough if you think that. She took 2 minutes off of her PB and the previous record with male pacing (Ruth had had some male pacing in the past, but nowhere near anything like what she had in her record run). Ruth wasn't the record holder at the time, but based on her splits at past races its pretty clear she was in at worst 2:13 shape back then.
Remember that when Paula ran her insane 2:15:25, the mens record was 2:05:38. So Paula's time was like a woman today running sub 2:10:30, which isn't too far off what Ruth ran.
I'm not saying Ruth or Kiplimo are clean, but to say Ruth just came out of nowhere is a bit of an overstatement. It was a massive jump in performance, evenmore so than Kiplimo, but in retrospect you can see the hints that there was something special there.
So Conner Mantz, the fastest American of all time just ran 59:12 last month beating Ryan Hall's 2007 record of 59:42.
Connor Mantz averaged almost 11 seconds slower per mile than Kiplimo just ran without a pacer (although it seems he had a pace car). Yes, I have trouble believing Kiplimo is clean.
There’s a difference between taking fractions of a second off a relatively recent 3000m record or breaking a 5000m record that is now old enough to drink, and what just happened with Kiplimo breaking his 10k PR en route to shattering 1.3% off an already strong record, or Ruth coming out of nowhere to take minutes off the marathon record.
Coming out of nowhere for Ruth might be a tad strong. Although it was a massive jump in performance.
I don't think a woman splitting 2:10 pace on two seperate occasions half way through a marathon, before finally running 2:10 for the whole marathon is exactly coming out of nowhere. Everyone just thought her 65 half marathon splits in past races were tactically bad pacing.
Ruth took no more time off the record than Paula Radcliffe. Did Paula "come out of nowhere" as well. I think you might say she did, and fair enough if you think that. She took 2 minutes off of her PB and the previous record with male pacing (Ruth had had some male pacing in the past, but nowhere near anything like what she had in her record run). Ruth wasn't the record holder at the time, but based on her splits at past races its pretty clear she was in at worst 2:13 shape back then.
Remember that when Paula ran her insane 2:15:25, the mens record was 2:05:38. So Paula's time was like a woman today running sub 2:10:30, which isn't too far off what Ruth ran.
I'm not saying Ruth or Kiplimo are clean, but to say Ruth just came out of nowhere is a bit of an overstatement. It was a massive jump in performance, evenmore so than Kiplimo, but in retrospect you can see the hints that there was something special there.
Some more facts about Ruth/Kiplimo.
Prior to her record she was the only woman to have run 2:17 or faster 4 times or more, now 5 times (the next best women Assefa and Radcliffe have done it only 3 times).
Her 2:14:18 had her splitting the opening 5k in 2:08:00 pace, which is just insane. In some sense her 2:14:18 was a blow up, slowing down by more than 6 minutes. Most people's PBs are much closer to evenly split.
I think no one would have been that surprised if Ruth ran a 2:11:00 (given that her track record was way stronger than Assefa's prior to Assefa running 2:11:52), but there is something really psychologically shocking about seeing 2:09:XX even if it is a 2:09:56.
Ruth set her record at age 30, which is peak age for marathon running. If you are going to set a record in the marathon thats when you'd expect it. Kiplimo is only 24, which is quite young, which means we can potentially expect faster times to come. Its why its so sad that Kiptum died prematurely - we likely would have seen a legal sub 2 hour thon in my opinion.
Let's celebrate Nuguse, Ingrebiesten, Hocker and Fisher.
They are clean runners.
Why say others are doping when they broke wr while others are celebrated
Fascinating
The difference is these other performances aren't out of line with what they or others have done before. Nuguse running 3:46 isn't even his outdoor PR. Same with Jakob's 3:45, he has run 3:43 and 3:27 for 1500. Hocker has run 3:27 and is olympic champ, beating a 3k indoor record by a second isn't crazy. Fisher has run 12:48? outdoors and is a double olympic medalist, 12:45 on the BU track isn't crazy.
But when we get to what Kiplimo just did, that's absurd. The list of sub 58 guys is quite short. The list of sub 57:30 guys was zero. And then he goes out and runs 56:42??? beating it by 48 seconds? That's 3.6 seconds per mile. That's over 11 seconds in a 5k. Imagine of someone goes out and beats Cheptegei's already fast 12:35 world record with a 12:24, it would be unfathomable. That's what Kiplimo's race just was.
There’s a difference between taking fractions of a second off a relatively recent 3000m record or breaking a 5000m record that is now old enough to drink, and what just happened with Kiplimo breaking his 10k PR en route to shattering 1.3% off an already strong record, or Ruth coming out of nowhere to take minutes off the marathon record.
Coming out of nowhere for Ruth might be a tad strong. Although it was a massive jump in performance.
I don't think a woman splitting 2:10 pace on two seperate occasions half way through a marathon, before finally running 2:10 for the whole marathon is exactly coming out of nowhere. Everyone just thought her 65 half marathon splits in past races were tactically bad pacing.
Ruth took no more time off the record than Paula Radcliffe. Did Paula "come out of nowhere" as well. I think you might say she did, and fair enough if you think that. She took 2 minutes off of her PB and the previous record with male pacing (Ruth had had some male pacing in the past, but nowhere near anything like what she had in her record run). Ruth wasn't the record holder at the time, but based on her splits at past races its pretty clear she was in at worst 2:13 shape back then.
Remember that when Paula ran her insane 2:15:25, the mens record was 2:05:38. So Paula's time was like a woman today running sub 2:10:30, which isn't too far off what Ruth ran.
I'm not saying Ruth or Kiplimo are clean, but to say Ruth just came out of nowhere is a bit of an overstatement. It was a massive jump in performance, evenmore so than Kiplimo, but in retrospect you can see the hints that there was something special there.
So Conner Mantz, the fastest American of all time just ran 59:12 last month beating Ryan Hall's 2007 record of 59:42.
Connor Mantz averaged almost 11 seconds slower per mile than Kiplimo just ran without a pacer (although it seems he had a pace car). Yes, I have trouble believing Kiplimo is clean.
It doesn't actually seem completely impossible for me to believe to me that somebody out there could be 11 seconds per mile ahead of Mantz because for many years now the best East Africans have been about that much ahead of the fastest American marathoners.
No way he is clean. The course is probably short as some have already suggested, but if not he’s doped to the gills. We need to be fair and call it like it is. If 2:09 from a woman is unbelievable, then 56:41 is just as if not more impossible. We can’t be hypocrites here. The boards exploded with criticism after Ruth C ran 2:09.
Brojos, delay or even just permanently withhold a dedication page to Kiplimo. He does not deserve it. He’s now become the most obvious doper in our sport’s history. Let us not be fools here. All the biocarb and fancy shoe tech in the world cannot account for this.
The question is, can doping account for this?
Maybe Ruth C was clean, and it is "fans" like you who have the wrong faith.
No way he is clean. The course is probably short as some have already suggested, but if not he’s doped to the gills. We need to be fair and call it like it is. If 2:09 from a woman is unbelievable, then 56:41 is just as if not more impossible. We can’t be hypocrites here. The boards exploded with criticism after Ruth C ran 2:09.
Brojos, delay or even just permanently withhold a dedication page to Kiplimo. He does not deserve it. He’s now become the most obvious doper in our sport’s history. Let us not be fools here. All the biocarb and fancy shoe tech in the world cannot account for this.
The question is, can doping account for this?
Maybe Ruth C was clean, and it is "fans" like you who have the wrong faith.
They are not fans, they are racist, xenophobic and misogynistic because someone else is better than them
Remember only USA is clean and there WRs should be celebrated but clearly to the gills, if you are a person of colour or a women, it’s fair game
Here is my take. His track 10000m PR is what 2640 and now that is his average pace on the roads for over twice the distance??. This far exceeds progression
No way he is clean. The course is probably short as some have already suggested, but if not he’s doped to the gills. We need to be fair and call it like it is. If 2:09 from a woman is unbelievable, then 56:41 is just as if not more impossible. We can’t be hypocrites here. The boards exploded with criticism after Ruth C ran 2:09.
Brojos, delay or even just permanently withhold a dedication page to Kiplimo. He does not deserve it. He’s now become the most obvious doper in our sport’s history. Let us not be fools here. All the biocarb and fancy shoe tech in the world cannot account for this.
Exactly, he should be accused of cheating to the same extend than Ruth C: not at all.
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