On January 16, 1965, Australian middle-distance legend Ron Clarke made history by breaking his fourth world record. This time, he took down Vladimir Kuts’ long-standing 5000m mark by a fifth of a second with a time of 13:34.8.
"Long-standing," indeed: Kuts had set the record more than seven years earlier.
On January 16, 1965, Australian middle-distance legend Ron Clarke made history by breaking his fourth world record. This time, he took down Vladimir Kuts’ long-standing 5000m mark by a fifth of a second with a time of 13:34.8.
"Long-standing," indeed: Kuts had set the record more than seven years earlier.
Didn't Kuts fartlek all his world records 100m fast then 100m jog or something ? Crazy that he ran that fast with that sort of pacing ...
Yet by 1980 (45 years ago) the middle distance records were basically "modern" elite times:
The 800m was 1:41, the 1500 was 3:29.
Why is it that the human species hasn't really improved in the middle distances since 1980? Sure, the tracks and shoes are better so the WRs are slightly better, yet the bottom line is that a 1:41 and 3:29 is still super elite today...
Yet by 1980 (45 years ago) the middle distance records were basically "modern" elite times:
The 800m was 1:41, the 1500 was 3:29.
Why is it that the human species hasn't really improved in the middle distances since 1980? Sure, the tracks and shoes are better so the WRs are slightly better, yet the bottom line is that a 1:41 and 3:29 is still super elite today...
Training methods today are basically the same in the middle distances as they were in 1980.
Didn't Kuts fartlek all his world records 100m fast then 100m jog or something ? Crazy that he ran that fast with that sort of pacing ...
I'm not aware that he did that in his record races. It seemed he generally started at a very tough pace, basically daring his competitors to stay with him, and in his record races he was able to drop the others early and keep most of his speed through the finish.
The 10,000 in the 1956 OG was special. Kuts had the WR for the distance, but Pirie--an eventual sub-four miler--had set the 5,000 record earlier in the year, hanging with Kuts for twelve laps and then blowing him away with a sprint. So for the OG 10 Kuts decided he had to prevent another sit-and-kick race from Pirie by burning off Pirie's speed.
As detailed in Sports Illustrated, which devoted a page to a lap-by-lap account of the race (try to picture SI doing that today!), Kuts set off at a fast pace that, after a few laps, only Pirie tried to match. Then Kuts threw in random sprints (200m sub-30, etc.). Pirie followed him each time. They went through 5,000 at a time that basically matched Zatopek's Olympic record for the distance.
After about 20 laps, Kuts almost came to a stop, to force Pirie into the lead. Kuts could see that Pirie was almost sleepwalking, took off on another sprint, and immediately broke Pirie, who eventually finished eighth. That random pacing almost killed Kuts, too: At one point he and Pirie were maybe a half-lap ahead of everyone else, but by the finish the other medalists were within ~40 meters. Nice coverage of the race, and a lot of other t&f here:
Yet by 1980 (45 years ago) the middle distance records were basically "modern" elite times:
The 800m was 1:41, the 1500 was 3:29.
Why is it that the human species hasn't really improved in the middle distances since 1980? Sure, the tracks and shoes are better so the WRs are slightly better, yet the bottom line is that a 1:41 and 3:29 is still super elite today...
Training methods today are basically the same in the middle distances as they were in 1980.
The 80s were the last decade where one could mix steroids with (initially legal) blood transfusions basically without feat of getting detected. As we all know, only one East German was ever caught back then, despite their hard-core all out doping to the gills.
In the 90s, doping with roids got a lot harder. Ask Baumann and Decker.
I saw Clarke run. His form today super shoes 13:20 max. However would have been a great marathoner , 2:08
This is so typical of this site. A guy that ran 8:19, 13:16 and 27:39 in relatively crappy shoes and on relatively crappy tracks is being assessed as a 13:20 runner at best if running with today’s advantages. Well done!
This is pretty typical of the current millennial/genz crowd that have saturated the sport. Know absolutely zero about the sport or it’s history.
Ron Clarke was great time trialer who set 17 WRs. He won a Bronze medal in the Olympic 10,000m.
Fixed it for you. You're welcome.
Half of his world records are in imperial distances that are never contested today. Also, breaking a record multiple times shouldn’t count because anyone can take half a second off and call that another WR. It is basically only 1 or 2 rather than 5.
His best chance would have been 1968, but he was foiled by the games being held at altitude in Mexico City.
Well it looked like he had a decent chance in 1964 too, but he didn’t have a great kick. He had a pretty good shove though, and Billy Mills was the recipient of it.
Half of his world records are in imperial distances that are never contested today. Also, breaking a record multiple times shouldn’t count because anyone can take half a second off and call that another WR. It is basically only 1 or 2 rather than 5.
Duplantis?
Of course this applies to Duplantis. We literally have access to his true heights. He is setting WRs for the money and nothing else. For all it’s worth, he has really only set 2-3 WRs.
I upvoted you because you are correct. My numbers were off.
My thesis was that a mid-distance guy from 1980 would still be running in the Olympic Final and the Diamond League with NO changes to their training. They put on the super-shoes and they run on the super tracks. They are instantly competitive.
Whereas the 5000m and 10,000m guys would be exposed. Running 28:09 in the 10km would look stupid compared to Nico Young and Grant Fisher's times (for example).
The improvement in the long distances has been much greater than in the middle distances is what I was trying to say.
This is so typical of this site. A guy that ran 8:19, 13:16 and 27:39 in relatively crappy shoes and on relatively crappy tracks is being assessed as a 13:20 runner at best if running with today’s advantages. Well done!
Ok then. What would he have run today? And what proof do you have to support the times you claim he can run.
Well, we can start with "faster than 13:20" because he literally ran 13:16 in the olden days.
If you figure about 12 seconds for the shoes (1 second per lap), and 6 seconds for the better tracks, as well as 4 seconds for the wavelights, and 6 seconds because he could have pacers through 10 laps, then I am going to go out on a limb and say...
Ron Clarke would have a PR that almost matches up with Grant Fisher's. 12:50 for sure. Is that crazy talk?
p.s. Clarke ran one of his world records on a grass track with a slight slope to it. It was the most boring race because there was no competition, just steady running. That was in Tasmania... solo.
It came as a surprise to Ron Clarke himself that his wondrous year of world record wrecking began on the grassy slopes of North Hobart Oval 60 years ago today.
I upvoted you because you are correct. My numbers were off.
My thesis was that a mid-distance guy from 1980 would still be running in the Olympic Final and the Diamond League with NO changes to their training. They put on the super-shoes and they run on the super tracks. They are instantly competitive.
Whereas the 5000m and 10,000m guys would be exposed. Running 28:09 in the 10km would look stupid compared to Nico Young and Grant Fisher's times (for example).
The improvement in the long distances has been much greater than in the middle distances is what I was trying to say.
It's equally possible that Young and Fisher would look stupid getting out kicked by Miruts Yifter.
I saw Clarke run. His form today super shoes 13:20 max. However would have been a great marathoner , 2:08
13:20? He ran 13:16 on cinders in pre-modern shoes. You have no idea what you are talking about.
and mostly, without peaking .. had 14 world records orsomething. that year.
id like to put up an open challnge where anyone can throw down a grand, and they double their money if they can solo a 1316?in the old shoes on a cinder track?
