Seb Coe said he's only seen one Olympic run that rivals Sydney's 50.37. Guess what it was....

As soon as I read this title I knew what the answer was (Rudisha), but honestly I find it hard to believe that even Coe really thinks this.

Really Seb? Objectively? I couldn't disagree more but I guess I understand why he says this.

The race was won by 1.5 seconds - the largest margin of victory in the womens 4 hurdles ever so it wasn't a great race per se. But I get that might not be the criteria for the best Olympic run he's "ever seen" but then let's look at that.

Yes it was a WR but we have seen WR's in the Olympics before and especially in recent memory. Bolt, Van Niekirk, Ayana, Warholm, SML etc so again, that's not something unprecedented. So it has to be the pure performance right? But how good is it really? Is it such an earth shattering performance or does it just seem like it because the womens 400mH has been a lower talent event for ever and it's finally catching up now it has a true elite talent who could compete at the highest level in the 400m as well, focussing on it.

50.37 is a 1322 point performance and it broke the record by 0.28 seconds.

To put that in context, the Tokyo mens 4 hurds was won in 45.94 which broke the record by 0.76 seconds, was a 1340 point performance. Second place in that race was 46.17 - also way under the previous WR and was a 1328 point performance.

To put those in context, Bolts 200m WR in Beijing of 19.30 which broke a record many also thought might never be broken was 1332 points and that wasn't even Bolts most memorable performance of those games (the 100m and the running sideways 9.69 was). I've said this many times - the points aren't everything but they do a pretty darn good job of giving us a sense of relativity and comparison.

Not only that, another McL WR was expected. Was anyone really shocked when she did that? When Warholm and Benjamin came off that that final hurdle almost neck with Benjamin looking like he was going to run him down, only not to and then the clock stopping at 45.xx? That was shocking in the absolute best way - and this is only going in depth on one example here.

Coe playing the game but in doing so he makes himself sound like somebody who doesn't know the sport. That's a shame.

I think your post raises some really good points and questions about what makes an Olympic or, more broadly, a global championship performance special. The criteria that I've considered include (in no particular order):

• World Athletics point value
• Margin of victory (as a measure of dominance over one's contemporaries, not as a measure of the most thrilling contest)
• Quality of competition
• Percentage that the new WR is better than the #2 performer in history (personally, I think it's more meaningful to look at how much better a WR holder is than the #2 person, not by how much an existing WR holder broke their own record)
• Expectations and pressure going into the event (generally, heavier is the head that wears the crown, but there can also be unique circumstances in which a longtime great like El G is looking to get the one thing missing from his resume)
• Breaking a significant barrier
• Shock factor

How an individual weights each of those criteria will determine their opinion. For example, compare Sydney's 50.37 WR in Paris to her 50.68 WR at the 2022 world championships. Which performance was more special? Objectively, 50.37 is a much better mark than 50.68, but some might argue 50.68 was more special because it was the first time a woman ran under 51 in that event, it had an even larger margin of victory, and it was far better than the #2 all-time performer's best mark back then. Definitely had more shock factor. On the other hand, should we really "penalize" a dominant athlete just because we've seen her dominate before? There's obviously a lot more pressure with the Olympics, and going into Paris, Sydney's main challenger was much more formidable than she had been in 2022. Just depends on how you look at it.

Alberto Juantorena 400/800 double

You make a fair point. Bolt, Rudisha, and Sydney were WR holders coming into their respective Olympics and hence overwhelming favorites which imparted the requisite pressure. It reminds me of one of my favorite lines of Coe's from the Born to Run documentary where he entered an Olympics as an overwhelming favorite.

It was a very difficult situation sitting literally 6, 7, 8 months away from an Olympic final having broken 3 world records at that distance. As far as the average guy on the street was concerned, I only had to turn up and stand up in the Olympic stadium to win 2 Olympic gold medals. Anybody in athletics knew that was far far from being the truth.

Rudisha's London run was my guess before I opened the thread.

She dominates a weak event

Here are better performances:

Usain Bolt 100m 2008 and 2012

Usain Bolt 200m 2008 and 2012

Michael Johnson 200m 1996

Wayde Van Niekerk 400m 2016

arguably many more throughout history but these come into mind immediately

I'm not sure what that is based on. Maybe I have missed something. Coe has praised Bol year after year, often citing her as example of track athletes who dependably show up all year.

Recently he said he thought he saw an 800 runner in Bol. Meuwly quickly agreed, even though he realizes Bol doesn't like the idea.

I love this post. This is how humans should approach these questions. Instead of just "going with our gut" all the time, it is nice to see someone trying to actually set up a set of criteria. Too bad we don't do this for all out important decisions.

For me, Bolt's wins were obviously "other worldly" but he was such a physical freak, I sort of expected them. He won, but I expected him to win.

Mondo and Sydney are both GOATs in their events, but because their events are "niche" I think part of their dominance is due to a smaller number of people competing (compared to the sprints or the middle-distances).

So honestly, for me the greatest was Rudisha's gun-to-tape win in the 800. But I didn't see it in person. My greatest in-person race was at the Pre Classic (not the Olympics) and it was Bekele's 26:25 in the 10,000m. That was freakish...

Yes. Also Lasse Viren's 1976 5000m where he was holding off the entire field trying to go around him for the last few laps was perhaps the greatest Olympic spectacle on track. That was his 4th gold and in those days they had to run competitive 10000m heats making the 10/5 double much harder than today.

I agree and think he’s a good choice for IOC Prez. Among other things, he’s not afraid to innovate and try different approaches. We don’t need a stodgy old cantankerous “we’ve always done it this way” in a second coming of Avery Brundage. And having him in a position of power will help keep track/XC/road racing in a good position for the OG.

I doubt he was going to say the Moscow 800 meters somehow

No, the 400 and 400h double at the 2024 Olympics was not "literally impossible" as you put it.

And it would have been 6 races not 7 or 8. And the first round of the 400 as well as the first 2 rounds of the 400h would have been jogs for Sydney because the competition in those 3 rounds isn't very good. So in reality it would have been only 3 challenging races, the semi and final of the 400 and the 400h final. Not easy but certainly not "literally impossible."

The REAL reason that Sydney didn't do the 400 and 400h double is because Bobby Kersee realized that Sydney wasn't in good enough shape to win the 400 gold.

If Sydney didn't run the 400 flat but broke the 400h world record he knew lots of people would call her one of the greatest runners of all time. But if Sydney won 400h gold and 400 bronze then lots of people would look at her differently. They would say "She's number one in the 400h because the top 400 flat runners don't bother to run the 400h. But she lost the 400 flat so she's not actually that fast." And that's something that Kersee didn't want people to say.

So I understand why Kersee didn't want Sydney to run the 400 flat at the 2024 Olympics. If Kersee thinks Sydney is in good enough shape in the 400 flat to win gold in 2028 then there's a good chance she'll run the 400 at the Los Angeles Olympics.

Rudisha instinctively popped into my head when I read the title, so I guess I agree. However, I’m younger so I’m sure there’s a recency bias at play

This is my take because he is a corrupt teflon-like business man, only there to enrich himself in his various positions with his companies and Nike. Good in covering up scandals and pretending to be a hear-nothing/see-nothing/know-nothing. That has nothing to do with his "multiple Olympic golds". BTW "multiple"? FYI, it was two golds, both in two heavily boycotted Olympic games.

"extremely accomplished in the administrative space (awesome job in 2012)"??

telegraph.co.uk

Investigation could take fresh look at Lord Coe's £12m 'murky deal'

MPs have threatened to reopen an inquiry after details emerged of the “very murky” £12 million deal that Lord Coe struck on the back of London 2012.

Open link

dailymail.co.uk

COMMENT: Lord Coe could pay price for friends he kept

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Matt+Lawton+for+the+Daily+Mail

MATT LAWTON: As Seb Coe was asked directly in Westminster, is he the right man to lead athletics out of crisis when he is so closely associated with those now at the centre of the scandal?

Open link

dailymail.co.uk

Coe knew about doping corruption FOUR MONTHS before it was broadcast

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Matt+Lawton+For+Mailonline

MATT LAWTON - EXCLUSIVE: Lord Coe has been accused of misleading MPs about how much he knew about the drugs scandal that has shaken athletics.

Open link

...

Why does Ayana in Rio never get a mention in these conversations?

- SMASHED a 23 year old World Record

- Front ran in oppressive conditions

- Won by over 15 seconds

- Beat 3 of the best distance runners of all time (Cheruiyot, Dibaba, Pappas).

- 2nd place almost broke the WR, and wasn't even in the picture

Sydney broke her own record. Rudisha broke his own record. Sydney's competition ran badly. Rudisha ran from the front, but that's easier in an 800 and than a 10,000

GIVE AYANA SOME LOVE

Seb's wrong: Ayana 2016 was at least at the same level.

A few points:

The "weak event" is the most challenging event in t&f besides the pole vault. Sydney (and Femke) has proven she could both easily focus on the open 400 and succeed but her dominance and athleticism will not be matched in this generation in any event.

Bolts 100 WR was amazing. ...However his showboating 10 meters before he got to the line diminished it's greatness, not because the taunting element but by the fact he could've gone sub 9.5 with that run. He spent the rest of his career chasing that great performance but never broke that barrier which he certainly could have if he just ran through the line instead of pulling up in celebration. Someday his WR may fall but if he didnt pull up, that record could stay intact.

Both of your points are wrong. Sydney is definitely NOT the fastest woman in the world in the flat 400 right now, Marileidy Paulino is.

Bolt would NOT have "gone sub 9.5" in the 2008 Beijing Olympics if he had run through the line. He would have gone a little faster but zero chance he would have been "sub 9.5".