I think Mantz is ready to go 2:05-2:06, but it ain’t going to happen when he runs four marathons in 13 months, most of them not in the fastest conditions. I wish this guy had gone to Valencia instead of NYC, but I get the payday.
It's our college system and too much emphasis on workouts for shorter distances, XC, indoor and outdoor instead of putting in the distance. If there was the incentive to race at longer distances we'd have a bigger pool of guys who would run faster marathons. Maybe with upcoming roster cut's more STUDENTS will join school clubs and those clubs could focus on half and above. Also we need to stop talking about Grant being our great hope for a fast marathon
I agree and have said the same sort of thing on these "why Americans suck at the marathon" threads. It's not a priority for our absolute top people. They get college scholarships by running well at one and two miles in high school and get shoe contracts for running well at 1500 to 10,000 meters in college and generally maintain those contracts by continuing to run well at those distances. The marathon either comes later in their careers when they think they've done as well at track distances or not at all. Our marathoners are generally "second tier" people who didn't have the collegiate success the former group had.
I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. Yes, we'll frequently moan when we see a dozen Japanese guys under 2:08 in a marathon and now maybe we'll moan when an Australian does the same. But how does the combined medal count of Japan and Australia from the last Olympics compare to ours?
If I could go back in time, I would go straight to the marathon/half marathon right out of high school and still try to occasionally run a fast 5000/10,000 of that type of training. Hopefully some of these younger kids will give this a shot. Certainly by age 20 or 22.
Both Mantz and Young could’ve run 2:06 if they had run either of their Paris or NYC marathon performances in Valencia. If they want to run a fast time- run London, Berlin or Valencia.
This post was edited 47 seconds after it was posted.
Both Mantz and Young could’ve run 2:06 if they had run either of their Paris or NYC marathon performances in Valencia. If they want to run a fast time- run London, Berlin or Valencia.
I agree and have said the same sort of thing on these "why Americans suck at the marathon" threads. It's not a priority for our absolute top people. They get college scholarships by running well at one and two miles in high school and get shoe contracts for running well at 1500 to 10,000 meters in college and generally maintain those contracts by continuing to run well at those distances. The marathon either comes later in their careers when they think they've done as well at track distances or not at all. Our marathoners are generally "second tier" people who didn't have the collegiate success the former group had.
I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. Yes, we'll frequently moan when we see a dozen Japanese guys under 2:08 in a marathon and now maybe we'll moan when an Australian does the same. But how does the combined medal count of Japan and Australia from the last Olympics compare to ours?
If I could go back in time, I would go straight to the marathon/half marathon right out of high school and still try to occasionally run a fast 5000/10,000 of that type of training. Hopefully some of these younger kids will give this a shot. Certainly by age 20 or 22.
Any kid with talent to run 2:06 someday, would be very good at XC/Track and will receive a scholarship. A large group of guys who ran 9:00+ in HS, will mostly top out at about 2:10. Waiting till after college to start marathoning is more than early enough.
There is a reason Mantz & Young beat a bunch of 2:06/2:05 and faster guys at the Olympics. They are actually very good marathoners, the incentives just don't align for Americans to run those fast times.
If you are trying to support your family on running, you can't turn down the larger appearance fees at American majors of which 2 of 3 are on slow courses. Even if you go to Chicago on a perfect weather day, you still have to think about your contract bonus and extra prize money for finishing top American, making you more risk averse. Running while afraid of blowing up, is not the way to push the absolute limits of your capabilities and potentially surprise yourself with a huge PB.
For Biya Simbassa, the incentives were actually aligned to do something special in Europe. His relatively slow PB and lower profile due to a lack of NCAA and professional track success, meant he probably couldn't command large appearance fees at Chicago and New York, so he went to Europe to take a chance and improve his PB. Now that he has run the 4th fastest American time ever, I bet his earnings at those US-based marathons will go WAY UP. It will be interesting to see if he goes back to Europe now.
There is a reason Mantz & Young beat a bunch of 2:06/2:05 and faster guys at the Olympics. They are actually very good marathoners, the incentives just don't align for Americans to run those fast times.
If you are trying to support your family on running, you can't turn down the larger appearance fees at American majors of which 2 of 3 are on slow courses. Even if you go to Chicago on a perfect weather day, you still have to think about your contract bonus and extra prize money for finishing top American, making you more risk averse. Running while afraid of blowing up, is not the way to push the absolute limits of your capabilities and potentially surprise yourself with a huge PB.
For Biya Simbassa, the incentives were actually aligned to do something special in Europe. His relatively slow PB and lower profile due to a lack of NCAA and professional track success, meant he probably couldn't command large appearance fees at Chicago and New York, so he went to Europe to take a chance and improve his PB. Now that he has run the 4th fastest American time ever, I bet his earnings at those US-based marathons will go WAY UP. It will be interesting to see if he goes back to Europe now.
I agree with you. Perhaps their sponsors should step up w some serious money if they actually run 2:06 or faster. Some of it guaranteed up front. Clayton and Conner have earned it, even if it doesn’t translate directly to “cash flow” from shoe sales.
If I could go back in time, I would go straight to the marathon/half marathon right out of high school and still try to occasionally run a fast 5000/10,000 of that type of training. Hopefully some of these younger kids will give this a shot. Certainly by age 20 or 22.
Any kid with talent to run 2:06 someday, would be very good at XC/Track and will receive a scholarship. A large group of guys who ran 9:00+ in HS, will mostly top out at about 2:10. Waiting till after college to start marathoning is more than early enough.
I will accept that. So, essentially 22. Having been one of those guys you described in a bygone era though, I was never breaking 13:30/28:00. Plus, “full rides” are extremely hard to come by in running these days, and one succumbs to the pitfalls of the excessive college training/racing atmosphere.
I think what I’m saying is I never had the ability to be flexible with my training and recover and sleep like I did in college, so why wait? Hard to work full time and train at the highest level, so why wait to find out. Almost everyone will be done w the sport at the highest levels some time after 25. Unless you’re getting paid well to run.
Andy has always been a great XC runner. You only have to look at his biomechanics to see that he isn't a speedy guy (heel striker with a low cadence).
He's been steadily improving at the marathon distance though, from 2:12, 2:10, 2:08 and now down to 2:06.
I don't think many people saw this coming though, as most people who follow Australian running have always seen Andy as a very good domestic level athlete. However, he's obviously taken a step up over the past couple of years.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, who's managed to do all this while working part-time as a school teacher and managing a shoe store.
Andy has always been a great XC runner. You only have to look at his biomechanics to see that he isn't a speedy guy (heel striker with a low cadence).
He's been steadily improving at the marathon distance though, from 2:12, 2:10, 2:08 and now down to 2:06.
I don't think many people saw this coming though, as most people who follow Australian running have always seen Andy as a very good domestic level athlete. However, he's obviously taken a step up over the past couple of years.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, who's managed to do all this while working part-time as a school teacher and managing a shoe store.
Stephen James "Steve" Moneghetti, (born 26 September 1962), is an Australian long-distance runner and physical health consultant who has represented Australia on many occasions. Moneghetti has a degree in civil engineering, a...
I recall Moneghetti finishing fourth in the World cross-country one year. 5th in the marathon in O G. Seoul, 1988. However his track best for 3000 meters, his shortest event, was "only" 8:09.00, but as the distances went up he got better with 13:25, 27:47, 61 minutes, and 2:08:16 at Berlin in 1990. Teleported to the present era "Monners" I'm almost certain would have been a 59 minute 2:05:00 guy. Going by his best 3,000 meter time would mean that his best 1500 meters would not have been faster than 3:45. That's equal to a 4:03 mile. Going a little bit further one can estimate that in a flat out 400 he would not have been faster than around 56 or 57 seconds at his best. I heard that De Castella never broke 60 seconds for a 400 meters.
Any kid with talent to run 2:06 someday, would be very good at XC/Track and will receive a scholarship. A large group of guys who ran 9:00+ in HS, will mostly top out at about 2:10. Waiting till after college to start marathoning is more than early enough.
I will accept that. So, essentially 22. Having been one of those guys you described in a bygone era though, I was never breaking 13:30/28:00. Plus, “full rides” are extremely hard to come by in running these days, and one succumbs to the pitfalls of the excessive college training/racing atmosphere.
I think what I’m saying is I never had the ability to be flexible with my training and recover and sleep like I did in college, so why wait? Hard to work full time and train at the highest level, so why wait to find out. Almost everyone will be done w the sport at the highest levels some time after 25. Unless you’re getting paid well to run.
In a bygone era 13:30/28:00 put you on the Olympic team🤣
Realistically the training for a 5k/10k/xc shouldn’t be that different than a marathoner until that specialization phase. For your first 3 years you are going to be focusing on bring up your mileage and volume of workouts. and yes I have seen the programs that push intensity hard.
But yeah the problem is you then hit like 22 and lose all the training support infrastructure. Unless you have a trust fund you need to debate chasing the dream or trying to squish running in around paying the bills.
Andrew Buchanan! Back in April I believe he went 2.08.58. he really broke through in Valencia!!
Yes I believe Mantz/Young would be right there even at 2:04-:05 in Valencia That's not to discredit Buchanan moreso to acknowledge their 2.09 in Paris (Buchanan 2:13:50s)
Much like Buchanan, Mantz/Connor are at a different level from their fast marathon Chicago 2yrs ago.
The greatest improvement in athletics will come when the mental restrictions fade.
Obviously that's never going to happen with the joggers or retired athletes on here. They couldn't do it when they were 'committed', and think because high performance evaded them, its impossible. Their first excuse is doping. The second is equipment
A lot of very sus improvements by Australian distance runners this year
Hey.
Didn't you hear?
In Australia, if you move cities and start enjoying some sunshine, this typically results in an immediate 3% improvement for older runner. For example, progressing in the 1500m from 3:57 to 3:50, in one season.😆😆😆
1:01:42 half marathon performer, consistently showing that ~2:09 ability (running 1:02 since 2019), suddenly dropping a 2:06 low? Four minutes faster than his PR, set last year?
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