For instance, the following is Will Sumner training according to Will himself:
Will: In terms of mileage, I’d say I graduallybuilt up from my first fall week until the lastweek of training, before indoors started. Ikind of go up a little bit and then plateau, andthen go up a little bit and plateauonly by three miles every, two or three weeks.I started at four or five miles in the first week, and then built up to about 18 by thefirst meet. After that I kind of just stoppedcounting my miles because I didn’t really runas much after that. In terms of a weeklyworkout schedule, basically we’ll do some short speed work on Mondays, usually it’s likeforties and eighties and stuff like that,working on just speed, turnover, things likethat. Tuesday I usually do my aerobic work,so I’ll go with the distance guys, justrun tempos or VO2max workouts.Wednesday, typically I’ll go with the sprintgroup and either do a workout with them orjust like their drills. Thursdays off. Friday is usually the hardest workout of the week, soI’ll do either an 800m workout, a mileworkout, or a 400m workout. Saturday ismy long run, but like I said, the longest I everran was six miles and mostly I’m only doinglike three or four miles.
So, if Will were just training as an all out sprinter (400 and below) he wouldn’t be doing a long run or VO2 max stuff.
Yes, but obviously I never said that you should never train endurance and aerobic capacity to train for 800M. That is still vital. I just don't feel as though the 800m really requires so much aerobic/endurance training that it can be considered a "distance" or even mid-distance category.
At the end of the day, you're sprinting two laps, and at the end are holding onto whatever you have left for dear life, as you would in the 400M
Some 800m runners have a sprinter's metabolism while others have a distance runner's metabolism yet possess decent speed. The two types of athlete need to be trained differently. Athing Mu is a 400/800 type with 49.57 400m speed. She allegedly never exceeded 35 miles per week (and didn't need to for her 1:54.97). When I say metabolism, there are very specific things in how muscle cells process fat and glycogen, how they deal with recycling lactate, if they are "pure" fast twitch versus the hybrid fast twitch which can adapt either way, or slow twitch. Some sprinters possess better "speed endurance" (how long they can hold their max v or near max v) which also factors into the 800m. These factors are genetic. So it is best to first profile the 800m athlete, then design an individualized program.
There are training groups where the coach uses a cookie-cutter, "one size fits all" approach where the speed oriented 800m specialists train alongside the endurance based ones, all doing the same program. That is a big mistake where one of those types will end up not receiving the proper training and will usually stagnate or regress.
There is no question that intense speedwork must be involved to train for 800M
Some elite 400 runners have transitioned into being world-class 800 runners
Calling it a "distance race" is even sillier
And most opening laps are between 49-51sec (if not faster), which is a controlled 400 sprint for most people
Could one argue that the 800M is just a full two-lap sprint?
The guys who go out at 49-51 usually die badly unless they are the very best who are in peak condition. A lot of recent elite 800m men seem to have 400m PBs of 46-47. If a sprinter with a good 400m time and good stamina will simply run the first 600-700m at a pace comfortably slower than their max speed they will then be able to finish fast and run a fast time (not WR time but fast). Such sprinters do not need to train like 1500m or 5000m runners to achieve this.
Mu has a 2nd place at USATF nationals in the 1500m. She also ran a lot of 1500s and XC in her youth. She is not a sprinter, despite her blazing 400m speed.
The 800m is most definitely not a sprint. It is a middle distance race, and you must train accordingly.
There’s reasonable debatable topics as to whether the 400m is a sprint. However, the 800m is not a sprint. No one sprints an 800m. It’s not physiologically possible. No sprint coach, middle distance coach, or track knowledge exercise physiologist of any worth will say the 800m is a sprint.
The 800m is run at a pace that is multiple seconds slower than a persons 200m sprinting pace.
He’s an experiment for you. Go race a 200m. That’s your sprinting speed. Now race an 800m and try run the first lap at your 200m speed. Report back and tell us if you still think an 800m is a sprint.
He’s an experiment for you. Go race a 200m. That’s your sprinting speed. Now race an 800m and try run the first lap at your 200m speed. Report back and tell us if you still think an 800m is a sprint.
Just because you're obviously supposed to open in a slower 200 doesn't mean it's not a sprint anymore... that's literally how 400 runners run their race. They open 1-2 seconds slower in the first half of the race, then hold on.
I have raced 200, 400, and 800. And the fact of matter is, some people split their first 200M in what would be a sprinting pace for others.
A 26sec opening 200M is someone's full-sprint 200M. Obviously, the high level 800 runner can handle opening up a 26. For them, it's like a jog. For the average runner, it is a sprint workout. But it is still a fact paced controlled sprint regardless. The times do not lie.
It is an extended, controlled sprint, the same way the 400m is
Mu has a 2nd place at USATF nationals in the 1500m. She also ran a lot of 1500s and XC in her youth. She is not a sprinter, despite her blazing 400m speed.
The 800m is most definitely not a sprint. It is a middle distance race, and you must train accordingly.
There’s reasonable debatable topics as to whether the 400m is a sprint. However, the 800m is not a sprint. No one sprints an 800m. It’s not physiologically possible. No sprint coach, middle distance coach, or track knowledge exercise physiologist of any worth will say the 800m is a sprint.
The 800m is run at a pace that is multiple seconds slower than a persons 200m sprinting pace.
The poster you responded to did not say the 800 is a sprint. The post says you need to have excellent speed and then need to run the first 600-700 at a pace that is comfortably enough slower than their max (a concept known as "speed reserve") that they then have enough left to maintain the speed and in some cases kick a bit faster for the final 100-200. If you carefully watch Diamond League and major championship 800m finals you will see this is how the champions run the 800.
The poster said it is a mistake to train a speed oriented 800m person the same way you train an endurance oriented 800m runner. Any knowledgeable coach understands the physiology behind this truth.
We have never seen a female athlete like Athing Mu and likely will not see someone like her in our lifetimes. She is not a good example of whatever it is you are trying to prove. Saying a female who sprints 49.x is "not a sprinter" is laughable, regardless of how many 1500s and XC they ran "in their youth".
Mu has a 2nd place at USATF nationals in the 1500m. She also ran a lot of 1500s and XC in her youth. She is not a sprinter, despite her blazing 400m speed.
The 800m is most definitely not a sprint. It is a middle distance race, and you must train accordingly.
There’s reasonable debatable topics as to whether the 400m is a sprint. However, the 800m is not a sprint. No one sprints an 800m. It’s not physiologically possible. No sprint coach, middle distance coach, or track knowledge exercise physiologist of any worth will say the 800m is a sprint.
The 800m is run at a pace that is multiple seconds slower than a persons 200m sprinting pace.
The poster you responded to did not say the 800 is a sprint. The post says you need to have excellent speed and then need to run the first 600-700 at a pace that is comfortably enough slower than their max (a concept known as "speed reserve") that they then have enough left to maintain the speed and in some cases kick a bit faster for the final 100-200. If you carefully watch Diamond League and major championship 800m finals you will see this is how the champions run the 800.
The poster said it is a mistake to train a speed oriented 800m person the same way you train an endurance oriented 800m runner. Any knowledgeable coach understands the physiology behind this truth.
We have never seen a female athlete like Athing Mu and likely will not see someone like her in our lifetimes. She is not a good example of whatever it is you are trying to prove. Saying a female who sprints 49.x is "not a sprinter" is laughable, regardless of how many 1500s and XC they ran "in their youth".
On the other hand, an endurance oriented 800m runner is someone who does not possess excellent speed, but can run closer to their max speed for a relatively long distance. Such runners do have decent speed, just not excellent speed. In many cases, such runners would benefit from having their running mechanics analyzed and then follow-up with some actual sprint training. Regardless, such runners do better when they train doing higher volumes of longer intervals. If a speed oriented 800m person trains the same way it will usually dull/weaken their speed because they are then training the muscle fibers for endurance/stamina not pure speed, which may be acceptable if the increased endurance results in better performance. So training for the 800 is a delicate balancing act that is dependent on the athletes makeup and how they respond to various types of training.
If it is a sprint why don't the best sprinters race the distance? There is no Bolt or Lyles to be seen in the event. Why also have endurance athletes - Snell, Wottle, Coe, Ovett etc - excelled at it? Rudisha was not a sprinter. He never raced shorter distances - the 100 to 400 - the sprints.