Yo, who da fuk was going to go to Okie State and develop in lieu of their current roster members? You really think WSU in 1978 looked any different? Get outta here with this goofy "shameful" crap. There are 150+ D1 programs, there's no scarcity today nor anytime soon.
hasn't been that long since OKST was national contenders with almost all Americans
Of the top 15 mens finishers, every single athlete was either a BYU athlete or an East African.
It's shameful how these teams have abandoned developing domestic talent. East Africans have been part of the NCAA for decades. But never like this.
Yo, who da fuk was going to go to Okie State and develop in lieu of their current roster members? You really think WSU in 1978 looked any different? Get outta here with this goofy "shameful" crap. There are 150+ D1 programs, there's no scarcity today nor anytime soon.
OK State has won multiple national titles in the past 10 to 15 years without a roster full of imported athletes. What a ridiculous argument.
Is NIL money in XC really that lucrative? I really don't see NIL having a huge direct impact on XC.
XC is indirectly affected from the downstream influences of NIL +title IX, limiting scholarship athletes.
But the distance stars getting big NIL deals are domestic athletes like Parker Valby and Katleyn Tuohy. Nobody's paying big money to some athlete that just moved from Africa yesterday that nobody has heard of.
Is NIL money in XC really that lucrative? I really don't see NIL having a huge direct impact on XC.
XC is indirectly affected from the downstream influences of NIL +title IX, limiting scholarship athletes.
But the distance stars getting big NIL deals are domestic athletes like Parker Valby and Katleyn Tuohy. Nobody's paying big money to some athlete that just moved from Africa yesterday that nobody has heard of.
It's not NIL like Adidas to Touhy, it's the fake NIL put together by the booster collectives. Mostly this only goes to football and bball, but a few schools like Tennesee made a small portion of these funds available to other sports, like xc.
The introduction of roster limits is a way to combat this problem.
Yo, who da fuk was going to go to Okie State and develop in lieu of their current roster members? You really think WSU in 1978 looked any different? Get outta here with this goofy "shameful" crap. There are 150+ D1 programs, there's no scarcity today nor anytime soon.
OK State has won multiple national titles in the past 10 to 15 years without a roster full of imported athletes. What a ridiculous argument.
You are absolutely correct so what happened? Why the sudden change last year to an all international line up? They were once one of the most respected programs for recruiting and developing high school kids. Then last year out of nowhere they show up with all these new Kenyan 22 yr old freshmen. A year later we have Arkansas, Iowa st, New Mexico, Texas Tech, taking a page from Ok st. Just wait to next year, Kenya will no longer have any runners left in their country!
OK State has won multiple national titles in the past 10 to 15 years without a roster full of imported athletes. What a ridiculous argument.
You are absolutely correct so what happened? Why the sudden change last year to an all international line up? They were once one of the most respected programs for recruiting and developing high school kids. Then last year out of nowhere they show up with all these new Kenyan 22 yr old freshmen. A year later we have Arkansas, Iowa st, New Mexico, Texas Tech, taking a page from Ok st. Just wait to next year, Kenya will no longer have any runners left in their country!
the ego's couldn't take losing to Mike Smith Every year so they recruited semi pros to beat him.
It's never been this extreme. UTEP never recruited people who had peo careers. No sub 60 half runners who show up aged 28 with 4 years of eligibility.
UTEP did bring in an Olympic medalist and a former WR holder in the 1500 and mile.
Forgot they brought in a few like that but it's still not quite as extreme with the number they brought in. A WSU Frosh broke a king chest CR by 20 seconds. It's egregious and these coaches don't deserve credit for just throwing a bunch of developed adults against teenagers.
Yo, who da fuk was going to go to Okie State and develop in lieu of their current roster members? You really think WSU in 1978 looked any different? Get outta here with this goofy "shameful" crap. There are 150+ D1 programs, there's no scarcity today nor anytime soon.
hasn't been that long since OKST was national contenders with almost all Americans
They used to be able to develop but now they don't bother.
Kenyans have been a major part of certain programs since the 1970s but it has never been like this year. When Dave lost time and time again to NAU, with athletes developed there, most of which would be American but with a few foreigners every year, he decided to go get Massouad, Musau, Kip'ngetich, Guasil, and others and was rewarded with an utterly dominant performance at NCAAs that arguably pushed Mike Smith to retire from college coaching. Dave Smith got guys already good enough to be top ten at NCAA xc their first year on campus. For Mike Smith, that took three years; for Ed Eyestone, that takes 4-6 years. So, now we have second tier Kenyans paid to run for programs throughout the country, and there will be few non-Kenyans in the top 30.
Stillwater/ OSU is a unique place and very hard to win at.
Oklahoma probably ranks in the bottom 5 nationally for highschool distance running. There are some good kids, Isai for example who was a multi time all American.
It’s rural, an Agg school, low in state talent, limited population in the surrounding 100 mile radius. But they do have amazing training locations, roads, the XC course. It is also really hot half the year.
Dave has done well with Texas kids, kids from the south etc but it’s a hard sell.
Their advantage is they can get kids admitted and have access to top international recruits. No two locations are the same but everyone knew once they lost that tie to NAU Dave was going to be on the war path.
OSU looked flat, I think they are less concerned about conference but have eyes on the prize. Two 10ks in Nov. they can rest regionals too.
Oklahoma State has been a major player in the east African athlete game. Iowa State, Texas Tech, Arkansas, Alabama, New Mexico are also key contributors to completely selling out their teams to semi-professional athletes and "recruiting agencies". Seems like the coaches of these programs feel like the only way they can compete is not by actual coaching and developing, but by buying a 27 year old 61 minute half marathon guy who can come in and run near the front on day 1. If you think its bad now, wait until these house settlement repercussions finally hit. You think these SEC programs with only 10 roster spots are going to waste a precious roster position on developing a 4:05 / 8:45 18 year old from Alabama when you can just give an agent $10k for a 27 year old 13:15 guy who may or may have not been doping back home? Think again. More is coming.
Dave Smith and Oklahoma St are to blame for this. They started this trend over years and years of frustration watching NAU win. Finally threw in the towel and just imported ready made East Africans. The rest of the NCAA followed their playbook a year later.
Glad to see BYU take them out and hope they do it again at nationals. I much prefer an all old Mormon team win over an old East African pro team. At least Eyestone DEVELOPED his runners and recruited them out of high school. Something that’s becoming more rare in NCAA cross country.
interesting that currently 77 people agree with your sentiment that, if everyone is to be old, better it to be an all White team than a team full of Black Africans. Yes?
Given that there is almost no equivalent alternative for a top Mormon runner, it will be interesting now to see how they develop their club team.
Many top runners will still choose BYU even if they can't get a roster spot.
You'd be right until you remember that mormons are only 2% of the country's population. Absolutely NOBODY wants to even consider BYU as a school unless they fall in that small group. Think of all the substance abuse theyd miss out on!!!
It needs to be studied how LDS is such a small population and yet makes up so many top american distance runners.
Is it a surprise? Their religion makes them do 2 years of missions at 18. During these 2 years they are required to wake up every morning at like 6 and exercise for an hour, which means they continue their aerobic growth. They get to college at 20 when they’re more mature and so can handle the new experiences and any possible distractions.
By religion they don’t drink, don’t do coffee, don’t do drugs, so the team doesn’t have those distractions. I’m sure NAU athletes still occasionally have a few beers or smoke with teammates even in season. Especially as a freshman. I’m sure out of season they’ll get blackout a few times, especially freshman. It’s not hard to see why the BYU team excels.
This post was edited 55 seconds after it was posted.
2% of the U.S. population favoring only one University is actually a huge number. There is no other university who gets 2% of the the population. Imagine if there was one school who got all the Catholic recruits or all the Protestant recruits. Simply doesn’t exist. But Mormons in the USA comprise of over 10 million people. That is a huge number from which to chose from for a cross country team.
Being Mormon has nothing to do with being a talented runner. BYU has two REALLY good coaches, huge support from the administration, ideal training location, in addition to a large pool of homegrown "Mormon" talent of which benefit from a 2-year required LDS mission which allows substantially older runners to compete at the NCAA level. Why aren't Utah, Utah State, Utah Valley, etc... just as good?
Dave Smith and Oklahoma St are to blame for this. They started this trend over years and years of frustration watching NAU win. Finally threw in the towel and just imported ready made East Africans. The rest of the NCAA followed their playbook a year later.
Glad to see BYU take them out and hope they do it again at nationals. I much prefer an all old Mormon team win over an old East African pro team. At least Eyestone DEVELOPED his runners and recruited them out of high school. Something that’s becoming more rare in NCAA cross country.
interesting that currently 77 people agree with your sentiment that, if everyone is to be old, better it to be an all White team than a team full of Black Africans. Yes?
interesting that currently 77 people agree with your sentiment that, if everyone is to be old, better it to be an all White team than a team full of Black Africans. Yes?
read the second to last sentence again
the second to last sentence does nothing to change the fact that the poster I replied to, and the 77 posters who "liked" the post, prefer a team full of white runners to a team full of Black Africans.
When age is the constant, white>Black, and this is the overwhelming consensus on this web Site.
the second to last sentence does nothing to change the fact that the poster I replied to, and the 77 posters who "liked" the post, prefer a team full of white runners to a team full of Black Africans.
When age is the constant, white>Black, and this is the overwhelming consensus on this web Site.
Seems like Nuguse and Nur had plenty of supporters here during their college days.
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